First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List ARP ENGINE + ACCESSORY BOLT KIT by <David_Kiklis@abtassoc.com> Most Cylinders (Previously Cheviac or Ponchette) by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Fuel pump and other Pics by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Re: Engine question by <David_Kiklis@abtassoc.com> Re: Engine question by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> my cylinder index by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Cyl. Index... by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Re: heads 101 by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Re: Engine question by "ROY D LUMSDEN" <rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com> Re: my cylinder index by "Michael Howell" <fishgod@iglou.com> Re: 110 fuel some are referring to? by "Tom McLaughlin" <thomas.mclaughlin@wmich.edu> Which book(s) to buy for firebird '67? by "Rob" <goof@soneramail.nl> Don't think Hugo can be beat... by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> fuel pump pix by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Re: Engine question by "marcts" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Re: Cheviac or Ponchette? by <peterskm@voicenet.com> cylinder index by "Landis Rogers" <rogers_landis@hotmail.com> Re: Which book(s) to buy for firebird '67? by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Re: Engine question by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> 1968 Black Deluxe Door Panels by "jttrettel" <jttrettel@onemain.com> Re: Which book(s) to buy for firebird '67? Thanks Bob by "Rob" <goof@soneramail.nl> RE: ARP ENGINE + ACCESSORY BOLT KIT by "Mark Wurtzel" <mwurtzel@flash.net>
(back) Subject: ARP ENGINE + ACCESSORY BOLT KIT From: <David_Kiklis@abtassoc.com> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:48:15 -0500 Ditto on the bolts not being the correct length. We installed one of = these on my friend's 73 400 and ended up only using about half the bolts in the kit. You can also try this company http://www.mmsacc-stainless.com/html/engine.html I have ordered from them an been very pleased with the quality and price. Also if anything is too short/long or missing call them and they'll send it to you at no charge David Kiklis Director of Computer Services Abt Associates Inc. 55 Wheeler St. Cambridge MA 02138 617-520-3661 p 617-520-3640 f
(back) Subject: Most Cylinders (Previously Cheviac or Ponchette) From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:05:38 -0500 As the once famous (I think he was famous) Kenny Rogers said....Know when = to hold em and know when to fold em. I FOLD!!!!!! You guys are way out of = my league. Be proud, the one with the most toys when he dies wins! Keith 68 H.O. (Only have 26 cyls and feeling rather inadequate) Subject: RE: Cheviac or Ponchette? From: "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 01:39:19 -0500 No wonder there is an energy crisis in California...Hugo is hogging all = the fossil fuel! Nice conglomeration. Suprised to see no 68's in the nest..I guess I'll be brave and let the world know too... 67 bird (Pontiac engine) restored 8 67 bird (Pontiac engine) in process 8 90 Festiva (w/Pontiac 428) HD springs 8 She can haul a long block too! 96 T/A (Man, another Pontiac engine) 8 2 400 blocks/1 428 and 1 455 (Pontiacs 32 Do boats count? 4 tractors? 2 70 (no, 66 I was fibbing about the Festiva) Don't think Hugo can be beat... Tom Ok, since you showed us yours, here is mine: (starting from oldest) 1955 Packard Clipper 8 1964 Olds Vista Cruiser 8 1967 Olds Vista Cruiser 8 1967 Firebird 326 Coupe 8 1967 Firebird 400 Coupe 8 1969 Firebird 350 Coupe (400 now) 8 1969 Firebird 350 Convertible (400 now) 8 1983 Firebird Coupe 6 1990 Toyota 4Runner 6 1995 Chebby Subburban 8 1998 Pontiac TA 8 ----- Subtotal 68 Spare LS1 8 455 block and pieces 8 400 engine taken apart 8 Chebby 235 (got it for free) 6 ----- Total 98 Cyl. I think that's it. Hugo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Fuel pump and other Pics From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:15:38 -0500 Chris, Got a picture of my fuel pump on my web page (in the New garage pictures link)if you want to check it out. It did'nt come out all that great but = you can see the setup. The line coming in from the front is the overflow = line, the line in the back is the feed line and of course the other line goes to = the carb. Let me know if you want me to e mail you the pic. Everyone else, I also added some new pics of the inside of my new garage addition, built just for the bird if anyone wants to look. Go to : http://www.geocities.com/kldonny/ Click on the "New garage pictures" link and let me know what you think. Keith 68 H.O. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Engine question From: <David_Kiklis@abtassoc.com> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:18:23 -0500 You can check out http://www.boyleworks.com/ta400/psp/blockID.html. This has a great info on identifying a Pontiac block More info then I can get into here David Kiklis Director of Computer Services Abt Associates Inc. 55 Wheeler St. Cambridge MA 02138 617-520-3661 p 617-520-3640 f
(back) Subject: Re: Engine question From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:41:21 -0600 Carb 4 bbl or 2bbl head casting number (above the center exhaust ports) >>> firemans68bird@yahoo.com 03/07/01 11:28PM >>> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... Hi all, On Friday I am going to look at an engine for sale and I have a few questions. The guy who is selling it thinks it is a Pontiac 455 out of a '73 wagon, however he isn't positive. He says that it runs and he wants $400 for it. My questions are: 1) Besides getting the numbers off of it, what else should I look for to help identify it? 2) Where should I look for possible problems with the motor? My plan for the engine is to rebuild it (it will be my first rebuild) and transplant it into my '68 'Bird (currently has a late '70s 350 w/HEI and 4bbl Q-jet.) Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Michael
(back) Subject: my cylinder index From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:44:31 -0600 Heh, that's amusing. You got me beat. 67 Firebird 400 =3D 8 97 Ford F150 =3D 8 2K Plymouth Voyager =3D 6 87 Yamaha Venture =3D 4 79 Bayliner (Volvo) =3D 8 _______________________________________________________________ > Along with my 2 extra pontiac engines, my cylinder index is 6*8 > =3D 48. ________________________________________________________________ Just for kicks... 1) 67 Bird 455 + original 326 =3D 16, 2) 72 Camaro SS =3D 8, 3) 73 GMC truck =3D 8, 4) 97 Chevy Blazer=3D 6, 5) 61 Bug =3D 4, 6) 83 Scirocco =3D 4, 7) 85 Jetta =3D 4, 8) 73 Harley 90cc =3D 1, 9) 73 Harley 125cc =3D 1 For a grand total of =3D 52 Not bad I guess? Brett in Seattle 67 Drop Top 455!
(back) Subject: Cyl. Index... From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:47:39 -0600 Total 98 Cyl. I think that's it. Hugo Hugo, You da man... you da man. Can we come and play at your house? Brett, 67 Drop Top 455!
(back) Subject: Re: heads 101 From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:47:37 -0600 Let me get this straight. You guys running 10.5 to 1 or above compression = with or with out water injection wit a long duration cam can go down to = the local gas station and fill up the tank with nothing but premium then = drive the car on a long day tip (6 hours) that has a combination of city = and highway driving in 85 to 90 degree weather and the motors will have no = sign of a pinging under light throttle or full throttle. Frank >>> ban67shee@hotmail.com 03/06/01 06:24PM >>> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... Franks says>> Re: heads 101 So you guys that think you getting away with running that freshly = rebuilt high compression motor on pump gas it is just a mater of time before it starts pinging real bad. I happened to me. Frank can we say manual water injection? ever used a spray bottle of water in your carb? No messy carbon build up then... Gary Run a high duration cam and large cfm carb...No worries on 10.5 CR
(back) Subject: Re: Engine question From: "ROY D LUMSDEN" <rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:31:40 -0500 Mic, A quick look at the side of the block above the starter but behind the exhaust manifold, it should say "455" if it is. Likewise "400", "350", = etc. This method is note fool proof but most all Pontiac castings show the = size. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mic" <firemans68bird@yahoo.com> To: "Firebird List" <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:28 AM Subject: Engine question > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Hi all, > > On Friday I am going to look at an engine for sale and > I have a few questions. The guy who is selling it > thinks it is a Pontiac 455 out of a '73 wagon, however > he isn't positive. He says that it runs and he wants > $400 for it. My questions are: > > 1) Besides getting the numbers off of it, what else > should I look for to help identify it? > 2) Where should I look for possible problems with the > motor? > > My plan for the engine is to rebuild it (it will be my > first rebuild) and transplant it into my '68 'Bird > (currently has a late '70s 350 w/HEI and 4bbl Q-jet.) > Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks! > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Michael > >
(back) Subject: Re: my cylinder index From: "Michael Howell" <fishgod@iglou.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:29:31 -0500 Brett- Those harleys.... are they by chance "sprint" models? I've been helping a buddy with a '68 sprint "aeramachia." right now the clutch is shot, basically the engine/crankcase is getting a rebuild.... Mike At 07:44 AM 3/8/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Just for kicks... >1) 67 Bird 455 + original 326 =3D 16, 2) 72 Camaro SS =3D 8, >3) 73 GMC truck =3D 8, 4) 97 Chevy Blazer=3D 6, >5) 61 Bug =3D 4, 6) 83 Scirocco =3D 4, >7) 85 Jetta =3D 4, 8) 73 Harley 90cc =3D 1, >9) 73 Harley 125cc =3D 1 >For a grand total of =3D 52 Not bad I guess? >Brett in Seattle 67 Drop Top 455!
(back) Subject: Re: 110 fuel some are referring to? From: "Tom McLaughlin" <thomas.mclaughlin@wmich.edu> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:55:57 -0500 Not sure if this appeared, So I'll resend it! Hello All, I thought I would give you my 2 cents worth on the topic of Aviation Fuel. Chris is correct about the "trick" racing fuel available at several gas stations around the country. As a Flight Instructor, I would suggest the Aviation gas initially. Aviation grade fuel can be purchased at any local airport. Aviation fuel is "cut" to a more stringent standard than most of your local gas stations. You can get 100LL (low lead) which is blue in color, or straight 100 octane which is green in color. The current price of these is around $2.50-$3.00 depending on where you live. Be careful they don't give you the red colored fuel, as this is only 80 octane. Good Luck, Tom McLaughlin 1967 400 Rag Top Soon to be Spring in Michigan
(back) Subject: Which book(s) to buy for firebird '67? From: "Rob" <goof@soneramail.nl> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:16:58 +0100 Hello I surfed through several pages (including barnes and nobles) to find a manual about the mechanical and body repairs/info about my firebird 400 = '67. Can somebody help me out, is there a book that covers it both? or do I have to buy two books and if so wich ones are the best and do you use yourself?. I prefer not to gamble on this, because it will be very expensive get them here, transport and tax etc etc.(it has to be shipped to the Netherlands) So it would be nice to buy the best one(s) for me and my car. I have little experience with v8 engines, v2 (motorcycle) and L.V.4 = (beetle boxer, and all kind of jap. engines) I can take apart in my sleep and put them together again without having leftovers (nightmare)or missing the tiniest part. So the book has to be levelled above "firebirds for dummies" ;-). Hope someone can help me out. Thanks in advance Rob Wiersma (Rotterdam)
(back) Subject: Don't think Hugo can be beat... From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:18:19 -0800 No wonder housing is so expensive, Hugo has all the land to store those vehicles. Heck, I can only break into the low 40's. Chris (jealous, Hugo has all the toy's and won't share..lol) `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: fuel pump pix From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:42:30 -0800 Thanks Keith, I can see all I need to see. Filed it in my Firebird/engine section for now. Man I need to find a Pontiac 455. It sure look's better w/ a PONTIAC engine. I can't wait to pull my Old's engine out ! Nice garage. Although,, I'd live in that little space, and make the house it's connected to my garage. Only problem.....my wife ( 7 month's pregnant with our first child ) would KILL me ! :O) Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Re: Engine question From: "marcts" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:17:00 -0500 If the block is out of the car should be easy, there is a 455 stamped in = each side. One is under the dipstick. You can see it in the picture of = my 455 look at the middle of the dipstick on the following link http://members.prestige.net/marcts/viewwpan.jpg The code on the left front of the motor example YX and the code next to = the distributor will tell you. If you want close up pics of these I will = be glad to send them to you, good luck, and I hope it's a 455! Tim
(back) Subject: Re: Cheviac or Ponchette? From: <peterskm@voicenet.com> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:35:22 US/Eastern Tom, I own a firebird with a Chevy engine...because it came in the car when I = bought it. I was originally gonna switch it out for a Pontiac motor, but since it is a nice = engine (454 LS-6) and it is in exceptional condition, that is extremely low on my list = of to-dos. I deal with the ocassional ribbings from other Pontiac-lovers. However, I = must take issue with your latest post. Many knowledgable people here own "mutt = birds"...do you really want them all to leave (and take their knowledge with them)?! I figure to = each his own, and I think to get along on this list, you must adopt the same mentality. = This issue has been argued uncountable times over the years that I have been a member of = this list. Take it from me, it is not a battle anyone can win. I prefer my bird modified, = others prefer their's stock. Either way everyone has something to offer to this list. Just had to insert my .02 --Kevin 67 "Mutt Bird" Coupe Tom Says... Alot of the information on this site deal with the history of the Firebird, production, original equipment codes, restoration specs, restoration guides etc. Here lies information that you do not find = anywhere else, in such detail, in the .com world. I don't see how swapping engines from a Chevy to a first gen bird is relevant to list topics. Sure you have Pontiac sites (CP/PY) which have the engine swap, building a race motor, transmission swaps etc. There is a site (PY) which has a "tech talk" Q&A board which deals with this subject. I frequent this site because I believe Geoff has great commitment maintaining this site and locating massive amounts of factual material concerning factory specs. A wealth of reliable and knowledgable = contributors (Glenn/John) are here as well. and all the BS aside, this is the best = first generation site out there. I like this site because it refrains from suggesting/implying major modifications, unlike other boards and sites. I guess I will have to deal with deleting all this Chevy crap from = now on...Time to install an ANTI "Chevy" email filter. Maybe you Pontiac/Chevy guys can start your own "mutt bird" site.... Tom --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Voicenet WebMail. http://www.voicenet.com/webmail/
(back) Subject: cylinder index From: "Landis Rogers" <rogers_landis@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:40:43 -0500 Let see, don't know how many of these count 8 67 firbird 400 8 72 detomaso pantera 8 70 ford f100 8 spare 351c 6 88 porsche 911 6 89 maserati biturbo 4 94 honda civic 4 84 vw rabbit 3 01 new holland tractor 2 98 suzuki tlr1000 2 toro garden tractor 2 honda generator 1 chiper shredder 1 lawn mower 1 leaf blower 1 show blower 1 chain saw 66 total landis _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Which book(s) to buy for firebird '67? From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:13:18 -0800 (PST) Rob Wiersma writes: >Can somebody help me out, is there a book that covers it both? or do I >have to buy two books and if so wich ones are the best and do you use >yourself?. Two books to buy initially. The appropriate Pontiac Service Manual for your year car, as well as the Fisher Body Guide for that same year. Both can be ordered from the various restoration parts companies such as Year One, Ames, and Performance Years, among others. These books are aimed at experienced mechanics, and were used by the Pontiac service departments. Some people use the Chilton's and Haynes books. But these books cover a wide span of years, and may not include detail about your specific year. Some have illustrations for a specific proceedure that feature a Chevy engine. This makes them rather limited in their use. -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible
(back) Subject: Re: Engine question From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:15:48 -0800 (PST) Roy writes: >A quick look at the side of the block above the starter but behind the >exhaust manifold, it should say "455" if it is. Likewise "400", "350", = etc. >This method is note fool proof but most all Pontiac castings show the = size. This is true for blocks cast starting in 1970. -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible bob.cisneros@Sun.COM
(back) Subject: 1968 Black Deluxe Door Panels From: "jttrettel" <jttrettel@onemain.com> Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:52:34 -0500 I recently purchased a set of door panels off of Ebay. I made a mistake in not realizing that since they were originally off of a '68, that they = would not work on my '69 due to the location of the door lock posts. The panels are in very nice original condition with a few very small cracks that are barely noticeable. They have drivers side remote mirror bezel and are for = a car with power windows (cutout is square on the pass. side and rectangular on drivers side). They do not come with the pull straps but do have very nice firebird emblems. The carpets do need replaced and the carpet trim on the drivers door is incomplete, but the pass. side is nice. I will sell them for exactly what I paid for them, $56.50. I would prefer to sell them locally (PA area), but will ship if you pay for the costs. I will send pictures if needed. These are very nice for originals and would be great (with carpet replacement) for anything less than a pristine show car. Please take them off my hands so that I can get the right ones for my car. Justin
(back) Subject: Re: Which book(s) to buy for firebird '67? Thanks Bob From: "Rob" <goof@soneramail.nl> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:09:44 +0100 I'll look them up on the internet, thanks for your answer Rob : Rob Wiersma writes: : >Can somebody help me out, is there a book that covers it both? or do = I : >have to buy two books and if so wich ones are the best and do you use : >yourself?. : : Two books to buy initially. The appropriate Pontiac Service Manual : for your year car, as well as the Fisher Body Guide for that same : year. Both can be ordered from the various restoration parts : companies such as Year One, Ames, and Performance Years, among : others. : : These books are aimed at experienced mechanics, and were used : by the Pontiac service departments. Some people use the Chilton's : and Haynes books. But these books cover a wide span of years, : and may not include detail about your specific year. Some : have illustrations for a specific proceedure that feature a : Chevy engine. This makes them rather limited in their use. : : -BoB San Jose, CA : 1968 Convertible
(back) Subject: RE: ARP ENGINE + ACCESSORY BOLT KIT From: "Mark Wurtzel" <mwurtzel@flash.net> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:28:27 -0800 Bob wrote: > That kit sells for $74.95 at Summit, so if you pay less than that, > you're getting a good deal. I used the 12 point stainless steel > kit on my car, and I am satisfied. > > You should be aware that this kit covers a number of years > for Pontiac V8s, and some fastners may be too short, or > the wrong size. I use stock manifolds, the kit came with > header bolts only. The alternator/power steering bracketry > changed very often, and the hardware supplied wasn't what > I needed. I also used the ARP polished SS 12-point kit (I believe the one on ebay is = a black oxide hex head kit). If you are missing bolts or just want stronger hardware the kit on ebay should work fine. If you are trying to dress things up a bit, you'd probably want to go with one of their polished SS kits - either 12-point or hex head. My experience was on a 455 which originally came from a '74 Bonneville. = For reference, I used all of the pumps and accessories from the '74 motor. The only problem I had, aside from them supplying only header bolts when I used stock manifolds (which I knew when purchasing the kit), was that one = of the supplied water pump bolts was too short. I called ARP directly to inquire about buying a longer bolt and _they_ offered to send me a longer bolt! No charge, even for shipping and they apologized to me for the inconvenience! I was amazed by their customer service! Aside from this everything fit and I even had a few 'spare' bolts in the = kit which I used in other applications under the hood. Anyway I was totally satisfied with the kit, though I'm sure there could = be minor variances as it seems to be designed to fit "every Pontiac V-8"! If you do run into that sort of problem, I'd suggest giving them a call. I just figured I'd throw in my $.02 as anyone who treats me that well is going to get a lot of mileage out of it!! ;) Mark