First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Re: Anyone know about this??? by "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> Re: Back Seat by "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> Re: Muncie shifter by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Undercarrage color by <Jimc2002@aol.com> Undercarrage color by "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Re: heads 101 by "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Re 400 with a bent valve by "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Re: Engine "TICK" by "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> Re: 68 front license plate bracket & boot clips by <Jimc2002@aol.com> Re: One more thing please by <Jimc2002@aol.com> Re: Which shifter for my 700R4? by "ROY D LUMSDEN" <rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com> Re: Power Top/Manual Top by "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> test by "Dan Lawrence" <danl@fdn.com> RE: 400 eng/chevies in pontiacs by "Slobird" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Convertible top boot clips wanted! by "bird" <bird@javanet.com> Re: Undercarrage color by "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> Re: heads 101 by "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> RE: Which shifter for my 700R4? by "Mace" <macef@optonline.net>
(back) Subject: Re: Anyone know about this??? From: "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:18:08 -0500 Robert, I believe it is Joseph Cione who owns that 68 RA I bird with the saddle trim option. Thats one awesome bird. Tom I think I've asked this before and either my email didn't go through or there were no responses. Leather Interior. I've got in on my 68 Convertible 400. From what I can gather there used to be one guy on here with leather (it was a Ram Air bird he owned) At any rate it seems to be one of the rarest options available. Has anyone actually seen it in person or knows someone who has it? There are a few area's that need repair and I am desperately trying to gather information on it. I don't think I could or would want to replace/repair the leather myself and I need to find the correct grain color etc... or even just find out how to fill in a long crack. So basically any info anyone has would be helpful. I appreciate the comments. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Back Seat From: "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:30:14 -0800 (PST) I've done this more than five times. The easiest way I've found to remove the seat is to start with the seat back, lifting from the bottom and swinging outward and upwards just enough to separate it from the seat bottom. Its top is hooked to the rear panel that separates seat area from trunk. Lift from hooks and remove from vehicle. Then the seat can be removed in a similar but "upside down" way by lifting up from the back, = near trunk panel, where seatbelts are bolted into place. As you know, the seat is hooked at the front. Once the rear of the seat is lifted, you should = be able to unhook if from the front. "Installation is in reverse order." Jeff Davis On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 13:25:05 EST, First Generation Firebird-L wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Hi- > I was trying to pull out the back seat lastnight and i couldn't get it out I pushed back like I heard a while ago and got one side out but..... = the other side remained in the "clips" or what ever they are. I can not seem = to get the other side out. do I need to put the side thati got out back in an start over? is there a really easy way to do this that I'm just no = thinking of? Or is it just really stuborn? Ihave worked at it for about 4 hours = with no success! thanks for any help that you can give me! > Paul Z. > 68 350 Coupe (front end apart and soon back sweat out!) > _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
(back) Subject: Re: Muncie shifter From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:09:01 -0800 (PST) Steve Manktelow writes: >I am about to do the same to my 68. Was your shifter after market? Do = you >remember what the part numbers were for the shifter, and handle? What >modifications did you make to the console? When I installed the transmission in my car, the interior was gutted, so it was quite a bit easier in some ways. I put the shifter assembly, minus the shifter handle, on the trans before putting it in the car. Once bolted to the bellhousing and the cross member was bolted on, I put the handle on and checked for clearance around the hole in the trans hump or tunnel. Then I laid the console on the tunnel and and shifted through the gears to see where the stick would hit the pot metal shifter bezel. After shifting through the whole range of gears, I found a position where the stick wouldn't hit. This required moving the U shaped bracket forward about an inch, and drilling new holes for the other console mounting locations. I wasn't sure if the carpet and underlayment would affect the orientation of the console in relation to the stick, but I found that nothing changed. Another poster mentioned trying to adjust the shifter handle at the two mounting bolts and see if you can get clearance that way. Had I thought of that, I would have tried that first. My method required drilling and relocating that might not have been necessary otherwise. I can't remember if there is enough variability at that location to get the clearance required. Worth a try. I made no modifications to the console itself. >I have been told that the after market shifter is really made for the = Camaro, >but is also sold for the Firebird, although it doesn't quite fit right. The Camaro console has a larger opening that can accommodate the aftermarket shifter more easily. The 1968 and 1969 Firebird console has a much smaller shifter opening, with an even smaller pot metal bezel that makes it even more challenging. The 1967 cars have a much more forgiving console (identical to same year Camaro). >I already have the shifter. It is Part # 391-4340, with handle #7436 = Does >this compare to yours? Those are probably the same part numbers as mine. Hurst only offers one (Competition Plus) shifter for this application. Their other shifters are not compatible with the console at all. -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible bob.cisneros@Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Undercarrage color From: <Jimc2002@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:27:31 EST With no replys this may not have made it out so I'll try again. I need some advice on the "factory color" of the undercarrage of '68 Firebirds. As I look at the underside of most restored late 60's GM cars = I find that they are painted black. My '68 still has the original factory paint, though with 33 years of Illinois roads and wear, and the color is a = red, very much like the solor red (code R) of the rest of the car. I've = had the car since 1969 so I know it's the original color. One restoration = group says my car probably has a red primer that Pontiac used at the time and another restoration person believes GM did some different things back then = and probably sprayed the entire body top and bottom with the same solar = red while they were in production. I expect the red primer explanation is = more likely. Does anyone know for sure? What colors are the undercarrages of your Gen 1's? If there is a red color almost the same as the solar red, = does anyone know where I can purchase it (sprayer or arrosol application)? Jim '68 400 HO Convert
(back) Subject: Undercarrage color From: "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:16:17 -0500 Subject: Undercarrage color From: <Jimc2002@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 12:23:55 EST I need some advice on the "factory color" of the undercarrage of '68 Firebirds. As I look at the underside of most restored late 60's GM cars = I find that they are painted black. My '68 still has the original factory paint, though with 33 years of Illinois roads and wear, and the color is a red, very much like the solor red (code R) of the rest of the car. I've = had the car since 1969 so I know it's the original color. One restoration = group says my car probably has a red primer that Pontiac used at the time and another restoration person believes GM did some different things back then and probably sprayed the entire body top and bottom with the same solar = red while they were in production. I expect the red primer explanation is = more likely. Does anyone know for sure? What colors are the undercarrages of your Gen 1's? If there is a red color almost the same as the solar red, = does anyone know where I can purchase it (sprayer or arrosol application)? Jim '68 400 HO Convert Jim theres a more logical explanation to all of this. OVERSPRAY. It is red because your car was red. It wont have the same gloss,color or texture as the upper body parts because it was never intended to be painted body color. Overspray will be evident even upwards into the transmission tunnel altho it probably wont reach the middle of it. I have a Meridian turquoise and 2 solar red 68s that have the same overspray patterns on the underside. The meridian turquoise one was Ziebarted (Paraffin based under coating that looks like beeswax) when new, which perfectly preserved the whole under side of the car. There is no evidence of any red primer on any 68s Ive ever had or worked on. Look under the gas tank as this is usually shielded from most of the harsh elements. You will find the same red overspray there. Happy scraping Gary
(back) Subject: Re: heads 101 From: "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:24:56 -0500 Franks says>> Re: heads 101 So you guys that think you getting away with running that freshly = rebuilt high compression motor on pump gas it is just a mater of time before it starts pinging real bad. I happened to me. Frank can we say manual water injection? ever used a spray bottle of water in your carb? No messy carbon build up then... Gary
(back) Subject: Re 400 with a bent valve From: "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:31:26 -0500 Subject: 400 with a bent valve From: "larry diede" <ldiede@bangkok.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:22:07 -0700 List members, I have run across a 400 engine that has the #8 intake valve bent. There are little or no marks on the piston top. The spring retainer has = markings where the rocker rode on it. The keepers were laying on top on the head beside the retainer. I am wondering what sequence of events took place for this to occur? Can anyone help me figure out what may have happened? What causes a bent valve? Thanks, Larry Larry, most likely a weak valve spring and an over revved motor. Sometimes if theres alot of gunk under the head on the stem of valve it to will cause the valve to stick open. This combined with the constant hammering of the rocker arm will dislodge the keepers.Kind of like a pogo stick. Be thankful it didnt kiss a piston. Gary
(back) Subject: Re: Engine "TICK" From: "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:43:43 -0800 (PST) Hey, JOhn. How's it goin'? Have you checked for exhaust gasket leaks? I had a tick that was actually the spark/firing (noise only, thank God!) that escaped from the exhaust gasket, sounding louder than it should have. Once those were replaced, it stopped. If you have difficulty locating the origin of the tick, you can use a = broom stick or similar wooden dowel to better locate it. May sound funny but = put one end at your ear and the other end against the engine block in = different areas, both sides, on the exhaust manifold, on/near the distributor, on = the water pump, alternator, etc. Be careful where you put that thing: watch out for the fan, pulleys, and belts! You'll get quite a variey of sounds that you don't really pay much attention to when listening to the engine = as a whole while just standing in front of it. Jeff Davis On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:01:53 -0500, First Generation Firebird-L wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Any engine guys out there know what a "TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK > TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK" coming from my engne is? I usually hear it right > when I start my engine up until it gets warm or after a minute or two & > right after I do a few 0-60 times if I cut the engine off then start it back > up - you hear it right when you start up. Anybody got an idea? Thanks > John. > _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
(back) Subject: Re: 68 front license plate bracket & boot clips From: <Jimc2002@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:40:46 EST Chuck, In an email direct to your address I've sent a picture of the boot clip installation that I found. Jim
(back) Subject: Re: One more thing please From: <Jimc2002@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:08:16 EST Robert, 1. I found the printed circuit 194 bulbs at the local parts dealers (Autozone, Track Auto). 2. I've been struggling with the same original color matching delema. I have not found a single resource but several as I go along (note my recent = undercarrage color question). I found one guy assembling a 67 Olds list = that I found helpful at http://members.nbci.com/442clone/abdypnt.htm. Plus I = use the resto dealer catalogs paint selections, looking at good restorations = at dealers and shows, pictures, and various tech forums. Here's one I still havent solved: What color was the original 68 power = brake booster unit? I finally found mine was a silver/aluminum color by finding = a small unrusted area hidden on the back of it. But I've been told they = were anodized (gold-like), black, or silver. 3. I have users manuals for my auto analyzer and timing light which give = a real good description of the connections, tests, and adjustment = proceedures. If you would like I can scan them and send relavent pages (Adobe OK?) if = you would like them. I assume you have mechanical points if your staying stock/original?
(back) Subject: Re: Which shifter for my 700R4? From: "ROY D LUMSDEN" <rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:24:39 -0500 Kevin, The shifter base comes in two pieces: a black plastic base and a chrome bezel top. I simply did away with the base and added a 1/2 spacer to the bottom of the chrome base to get the height back to it's intended = location. I used 1/2 Plexiglas, sanded the edges smooth and painted them semigloss black. Keep in mind that I did this on a 68 CAMARO and the consoles are = different. The heights of both consoles are similar but the Firebird's console is slightly rounded so you have to do a little more modification than I did. You may have to take a belt sander and contour the bottom of you spacer = (if needed) to get a nice smooth fit. Good Luck, Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: <peterskm@voicenet.com> To: <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:15 AM Subject: Re: Which shifter for my 700R4? > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Roy, > What type of modifications did you make to fit it in the console? How = did it turn out? > Any help is appreciated. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > -------------------------------------- > I used the B&M on the 700r4 I installed in my buddy's 68. It worked = great. I > modified it to work on the factory console. > > Roy >
(back) Subject: Re: Power Top/Manual Top From: "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:40:53 -0800 (PST) As I understand it, manual tops use hold down cables so I would assume = that there is a place for them to mount and to hook. I've never seen one so I can't say for certain that there are such places, maybe one is the header bow (?)....pure guessing, which I realize doesn't help you much. Mine has a power top and I can look at different areas, especially where = the cylinders attach to the frame. That's about the best I could do. Let me know if you need me to look closer at my frame. Thanks, Jeff Davis On Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:25:36 EST, First Generation Firebird-L wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > How can I tell the difference between a manual top frame and a power = top > frame? I have no idea what mine is, as it came off another Firebird. = Can > anyone give me some help? (My top is is a million pieces in my garage) > > > Steve Brady > 68 400 Convertible > _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
(back) Subject: test From: "Dan Lawrence" <danl@fdn.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:59:03 -0500 test
(back) Subject: RE: 400 eng/chevies in pontiacs From: "Slobird" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:03:27 -0500 Roy, sorry forgot to mention that the reply I made was not directed at your = post, I did notice that you said CAMARO. I own a camaro as well. Just seemed like everyone was jumping on the lets put a tpi in the car bandwagon. Hugo, those are good numbers, but your 98 is a ls1 I guess which is not = the same as a 86 tpi. I got those numbers from my book. I know the ta's with ls1 are rated at 305 off the showroom floor. Much more powerful (and different ) engine from the tpi. Torque still does not compare though to = a 455 which has no problem to pump out around 500 lbft, torque is what moves the mass. Besides the fact that I don't like to see chevy engines in old pontiacs, = I think it is both easier and cheaper to put a pontiac motor in. Well as forest gump said, that's all I've got to say about that! have a nice evening guys (and gal or two!) tim
(back) Subject: Convertible top boot clips wanted! From: "bird" <bird@javanet.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 19:15:21 -0500 Does anyone have a few of these around? I have several broken ones. They are a pain because they break when they are cold, which in Maine is like 90% of the time (ie. when it's not black fly season). Yes I know you can buy them from APE or the others but I only need a handful and can't see paying $40+ for a set PLUS shipping for the little plastic things. TIA, Dan bird@javanet.com
(back) Subject: Re: Undercarrage color From: "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 19:22:06 -0500 Jim Wrote..... I need some advice on the "factory color" of the undercarrage of '68 Firebirds. As I look at the underside of most restored late 60's GM cars = I find that they are painted black Jim, use the First Gen site! Instead of losing you, I pasted the info from = the chassis page for you. I used POR 15 for chassis and engine...No complaints and NO rust..looks great even after 4 years. Tom A: Fire wall is semi gloss black. Paint from AMES or Year Ones is = excellent. A: I pulled this out of a 30th anniversary Camaro magazine but pretty sure = it also applies to Firebird: Egg shell black lacquer for: Firewall, Inner radiator support, and other engine compartment sheet metal: PPG (Pittsburg Paints) 2 quarts "mixing black" #386 1 guart "universal flattening agent" One quart "mixing clear" #310 Use PPG #DDL-16 or DuPont #3608S or DuPont 2 quarts "mixing black" #406 1 guart "universal flattening agent" 850 One quart "mixing clear" #465 DuPont #3608S For the under carrage, Frame and suspention use enamel (easier to clean up = for show): PPG Delstar or Dupont Centari 3 quarts mixing black (sometimes called "strong black") 1 quart flattening agent Use PPG DTR601 quick dry reducer The above is for the "purists" who like the correct shade of black. I've = had good luck with three parts cheap chassis black and one part universal flattening agent. Comes out semi flat and looks great on the firewall, and = chassis. A: You can contact the paint manufacturers on line, give them the color = and year, and they will give you the codes or equivalent in base/clear. Or you = can contact via 800 numbers. They are very helpful. Q: Undercarriage Painting What is the absolute most rugged and above all, correct paint for the underside of my 68 bird??? I'm talking frame, floor boards, front wheel wells and firewall. In the recent issues of HPP, Jim's 67 was featured = with talk about using PPG products and the various gloss levels. That's great.. = But which PPG products??? Anyone know? I want mine to be correct and I = will use a spray gun rather than a spray bomb. Your helpful hints appreciated = as always. A: Here is what I got from a (gulp) Camaro restoration article. I can't imagine the Firebirds being different: Firewall, inner radiator support, and othr engine compartment sheet metal: PPG paints - two qts "mixing black" #386 - one qrt "universal flattening agent" - one qrt "mixing clear" #310 - use PPG #DDL-16 quick dry thinner or DuPont #3608S. Undercarrage, frame and suspension: Egg shell black enamel; - three qrts mixing black - One qrt flattening agent - use PPG DTR601 quick dry reducer Enamel is used for these pieces because it's more durable than lacquer and = will quickly wipe clean for "showing of" purposes. A: In this day and age Im surprised that anyone would use laquer or enamel = for a place like the underside of the body. There are many good urethanes that are far superior to enamels or laquers, for chip resistance,and = general wear and tear. Most of these urethanes have flattening agents to get the proper dullness or gloss. You do need to play with mixing to get the = proper amount of flattner vs. gloss. Anyone tried the POR-15 semi-gloss? Curious = as to the correctness of the gloss. Also dont forget to do this before you paint body so you can get overspray on the rockers and into the cowl area = as the factory did. Carefully mask the frame and leaf springs, and all cables = lines etc. Just remember how this was all done at the factory. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: heads 101 From: "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 19:24:58 -0500 Franks says>> Re: heads 101 So you guys that think you getting away with running that freshly = rebuilt high compression motor on pump gas it is just a mater of time before it starts pinging real bad. I happened to me. Frank can we say manual water injection? ever used a spray bottle of water in your carb? No messy carbon build up then... Gary Run a high duration cam and large cfm carb...No worries on 10.5 CR _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: RE: Which shifter for my 700R4? From: "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 20:04:38 -0500 Kevin, I just installed a B&M Megashifter in my 69 for my 2004R. Not only = does it work great, it look just as well. The console version for the 70-76 = that comes with it, just covers the console hole with just a small gap on each side. Not enough to even notice. This is the shifter to go with. In addition, I took the console cover apart to mount the console bracket that came with the shifter inbetween the lower and upper console. This enabled = me to secure the chrome cover that holds the boot in place without butchering the console itself...Good Luck Mace 69 355 Drop Top Roy, What type of modifications did you make to fit it in the console? How did it turn out? Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Kevin -------------------------------------- I used the B&M on the 700r4 I installed in my buddy's 68. It worked great. = I modified it to work on the factory console. Roy