First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List T.P.I. and 700r4 to first gen swap by "ROY D LUMSDEN" <rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com> 400 engine, worth the time ? by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Re: 3rd fuel line ? by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Re: 1969 Firebird Trans Am for sale. [Details] by <Studderin@aol.com> 400 eng/chevies in pontiacs by "Slobird" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Firebird Bulbs by <SteveBrady1@aol.com> 400 Trunk Emblem by <SteveBrady1@aol.com> Power Top/Manual Top by <SteveBrady1@aol.com> Re: 400 engine, worth the time ? by "Joe Brown" <jb.pb@gte.net> Re: 400 eng/chevies in pontiacs by <Studderin@aol.com> Re: 400 eng/chevies in pontiacs by <hugoba@apcom.com> Re: 400 engine, worth the time ? by <Studderin@aol.com> Re: 400 Trunk Emblem by "Zak" <jzakhar@home.com> For the record.. by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Re: Procedure for changing Body Bushings by "Andy" <fbird68@ix.netcom.com> RE: Procedure for changing Body Bushings by "Andy" <fbird68@ix.netcom.com> re: 2nd fuel line by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Fuel Line Question by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Re: 400 Trunk Emblem by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com>
(back) Subject: T.P.I. and 700r4 to first gen swap From: "ROY D LUMSDEN" <rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:24:44 -0500 Just thougt I'd give you guys an update on my project. This was a good = "car" weekend. I had Friday off so I started stripping the wreaked 89 GTA. The motor, tranny, and engine wiring harness came out on Friday. Saturday I pulled the disc brake rearend, gas tank, fuel lines, steering column and internal wiring harness. I also pulled the hatch pull-down motor, brake booster/master cylinder/proportioning valve combo, spindles with brake and rotors for a possible "future" project. Struts and shocks are next then I call the junk man for what's left. On Sunday, I re-arranged the garage (rainy day) and slid the TPI and = tranny into the 68 chassis for it's trial fit. I used a first gen 400 cross = member and boxed it to fit the 700r4. Whew! The next step will be to install the "new" transmission cross member and bolt the motor down. I then hook up the whole harness... engine, interior, and tail lights. Then attach the 89 fuel lines and tank (only temporary) = and fire her up. Once she's running I plan to start pulling the wires out that = I don't need... fog lights, rear de-fogger, environmental (I'm using a = Vintage Air A/C ystem), radio, etc. Each time, running the motor to make sure I didn't make a mistake. Following that, I'll start removing the wires from the 89 steering column and applying them to the 68 ignition switch, turnsignals, flashers, = dimmer, and horn. The headlight switch will be next with the tricky part -- = adapting the dash light dimmer. I may have to mount the 89 switch under the dash = and abandon the original 68. I'll keep you posted on my progress if anyone's interested. I realize = theis is kind of "reverse engineering" of a third gen but I thought maybe some here may be courious. Roy
(back) Subject: 400 engine, worth the time ? From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:03:32 -0800 In a local paper I found a `76 400 complete in a Catalina for $200. It run's very well. Here's my question. My car currently has a Olsmobile 455 in it. I want a 455 Pontiac, but haven't found the right "deal" yet. This 400 is in a complete car. I badly want to at least have Pontiac power under the hood. Is this engine worth the time at all ? I don't have any engine bracket's for a Pontiac engine. Are they the same for the Cat., and our cars ? It is a 4-barrel car if that makes any difference. Just after some input on this. I'm still looking for a `68 WK block. I want to have the correct drivetrain in the garage if I decide to put it back. The ultimate goal is to have a 350 H.O. car, with a 455 hiding under the hood. Thanks. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Re: 3rd fuel line ? From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:11:08 -0800 (PST) Chris Porter writes: >>Vapor return line. AC equipped V8's and 350 HO and 400 >Birds have them. >I thought this went to a canister, is that only on >California smog equipped cars ? Or not at all ? Later model cars, starting in 1970, use the canister. '68 and '69, where applicable, used a return line from the fuel pump back to the tank. Keith writes: >what was the purpose on these cars? Emissions. Fuel vapors are harmful to the environment. That's why modern gas station pumps have a vapor capture system built into them. -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible bob.cisneros@Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Re: 1969 Firebird Trans Am for sale. [Details] From: <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:47:34 EST In a message dated 3/5/2001 2:49:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gerryg@icpdd.neca.nec.com.au writes: << http://www.southernmotors.com/69ta.htm >> ??????????? ?????????????????? It has to be a custom set up 1. Notice how the A/c line goes on top, across water pump snout, very = close to alternator belt, pulleys and the fan. I don't think Pontiac would let = that go, very unsafe. 2. The upper radiator hose looks to be patched under the (tape)? It also looks the go up very high, cuz the water neck is backwards. And did anybody notice the TILT steering column and the formula Wheel? I thought that steering wheel was only available on 70-81 T/A's 70-72 GTO's Not 69????????? And a tilt?????????? This kinda reminds me of the 69 t/a convertible in the new PST catalog, (cover and pg.4) and that car has the hood tach on the pass. side and it's = nomad (right) side drive????? And the guy lives in Pennsylvania. OOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! John Costello
(back) Subject: 400 eng/chevies in pontiacs From: "Slobird" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:05:02 -0500 Well, first I want to say I hope I don't offend anyone here, but you guys are really making me sick talking about putting all of those chevy engines in your pontiacs. I hear a lot of people talk about reliabilty. I am not that skilled of a mechanic but have never been stranded by my pontiac, and it runs fine with carb etc. I suggest a torquey pontiac motor instead of getting some chevy tpi engine with about 225 net hp. Best to opt for at least a 400 and if possible 455. A 350 tpi engine is going to be a dog in a heavy car, especially a 4000 lb convert like I have. That's why I opted for a 462 torque monster. I'll be glad to put it up against any chevy powered car, especially a small block. And I get a whopping 10mpg, hey with an old car that doesn't have to pass emissions, why do you need fuel injection? Just put a ton of fuel in it, and blow what you don't burn out the tailpipes. Really, if you guys want economy and reliability get a honda. If you = insist on a chevy, how about a zz502 crate motor? tim
(back) Subject: Firebird Bulbs From: <SteveBrady1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:21:59 EST Can someone tell me the part #'s for all the lights in a 68 firebird? Preferably the GE bulbs? I need to replace all the bulbs on my bird, but I = don't know which ones to get. Steve Brady 68 400 Convertible http://members.nbci.com/srb/
(back) Subject: 400 Trunk Emblem From: <SteveBrady1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:24:17 EST Anyone have a good picture of the 400 trunk emblem or a template for one? = I need to drill the holes in my trunk, so any tips/suggestions would be = greatly appreciated. Steve Brady 68 400 Drop Top http://members.nbci.com/srb/
(back) Subject: Power Top/Manual Top From: <SteveBrady1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:25:36 EST How can I tell the difference between a manual top frame and a power top frame? I have no idea what mine is, as it came off another Firebird. Can anyone give me some help? (My top is is a million pieces in my garage) Steve Brady 68 400 Convertible http://members.nbci.com/srb/
(back) Subject: Re: 400 engine, worth the time ? From: "Joe Brown" <jb.pb@gte.net> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:47:36 -0800 Save time and money and wait for a 455 Pontiac motor to come along , buy = one with all the brackets on it , I did and everything fit . For $200 it might be worth buying the engine just for the brackets , P.S pump and A/C etc. Joe
(back) Subject: Re: 400 eng/chevies in pontiacs From: <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 23:35:03 EST Tim I agree with you, on the reliability thing. A rubber hose, starter, piston, tire, or a brake line doesn't say It's self. "Humm? If been on this (old) firebird with a 400 Pontiac for a year = now, I think today I'll spilt in have today." Or.......... "Yes, now that my owner put in that NEW reliable 93' TPI with a 700R4, = I'll last FOREVER, " And them you go and ruin your whole letter by saying **If you insist on a chevy, how about a zz502 crate motor?*** Chevy's SUCKS!!! John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: 400 eng/chevies in pontiacs From: <hugoba@apcom.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:14:55 -0800 (PST) Partly it's because it's kinda fun to put new guts in old things. Don't get me wrong, I like the old engines just fine but when you see a gorgeous looking first gen and they pop the hood and you see this modern machine sitting there, it's great IMO. As far as the 225 net, my 98 TA dynoed at 312 HP and 330 lbft of torque at = the rear wheels which would translate to roughly 360 HP at the flywheel. Make one of each and then everyone will be happy ;-) Hugo > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Mon Mar 5 20:07:19 2001 > From: "Slobird" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> > To: "'First Generation Firebird-L'" <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > Subject: 400 eng/chevies in pontiacs > Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:05:02 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > Importance: Normal > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > > Well, first I want to say I hope I don't offend anyone here, but you = guys > are really making me sick talking about putting all of those chevy = engines > in your pontiacs. > > I hear a lot of people talk about reliabilty. I am not that skilled of = a > mechanic but have never been stranded by my pontiac, and it runs fine = with > carb etc. I suggest a torquey pontiac motor instead of getting some = chevy > tpi engine with about 225 net hp. Best to opt for at least a 400 and if > possible 455. A 350 tpi engine is going to be a dog in a heavy car, > especially a 4000 lb convert like I have. That's why I opted for a 462 > torque monster. I'll be glad to put it up against any chevy powered = car, > especially a small block. And I get a whopping 10mpg, hey with an old = car > that doesn't have to pass emissions, why do you need fuel injection? = Just > put a ton of fuel in it, and blow what you don't burn out the tailpipes. > > Really, if you guys want economy and reliability get a honda. If you = insist > on a chevy, how about a zz502 crate motor? > > tim >
(back) Subject: Re: 400 engine, worth the time ? From: <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 00:22:37 EST In a message dated 3/6/2001 12:21:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, = jb.pb@gte.net writes: << Save time and money and wait for a 455 Pontiac motor to come along , = buy one with all the brackets on it , I did and everything fit . For $200 it = might be worth buying the engine just for the brackets , P.S pump and A/C etc. Joe >> Chris You could buy it to make money, What wheels are on the Cat. Rally II's? Think of the Tires, longtail turbo 400, the motor, rearend, seats, big radiator, scrap metal. the heads $100, Crank $100 Block $100, Rods, Q-jet. = It's all worth money. You could keep he 400 sell your Olds 455 $200. I wouldn't buy the motor for the brackets sense it's form a 76 most are = wrong or wont work A 76,400 will bolt into 64-81 Pontiac's. You will need 68 firebird V8 motor mounts and the set back (they bolt to frame and motor mounts. don't = know what you had to do to get to olds to fit) The 76 brackets P/S pump = and water pump/timming cover isn't "correct" but you can make it work. (It's better than an olds.). Have you started you search in a jjunkyard? John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: 400 Trunk Emblem From: "Zak" <jzakhar@home.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:58:08 -0500 Steve, http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/FAQ/docs/400lidemblem_location.jpg should do it. Hey while we're at it anyone found or have the template for = the 400 hood emblems. Still don't have my emblems on the new 400 hood!!! I'll buy = the beer when it's found!! Zak SteveBrady1@aol.com wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Anyone have a good picture of the 400 trunk emblem or a template for = one? I > need to drill the holes in my trunk, so any tips/suggestions would be = greatly > appreciated. > > Steve Brady > 68 400 Drop Top > http://members.nbci.com/srb/ > > -
(back) Subject: For the record.. From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:55:22 -0800 Just for the record, the Old's engine was in the car when I purchased it. It's hooked up to a close ratio ( pretty sure it's a close ratio ) 4-speed trany. It's a shame, I agree. But what do you do. I've been trying to put the car back to the way it should be a little at a time. It was ( still ? ) a 50/50 car. 50 MPH, 50 feet..... it looks real good. Oh well, at least it's in my garage. I found out it was an H.O. after purchasing it. When I got the PHS doc's back, I was pleased to find this out. I never see any on the road. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Re: Procedure for changing Body Bushings From: "Andy" <fbird68@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:58:21 -0800 Al, Roy Lumsden and I discussed this awhile back and together we came up with = a way to change the radiator support bushings without disassembling the = car. You can do the other 4 bushings while you're at it. The first step is to disconnect the steering coupler. This will make it = much easier to replace the bushing closest to the steering box. The = passenger side radiator support bushing will be much easier to replace if = you pull the battery tray, which I didn't do, but will next time. Next, remove the radiator support bushing bolts, and the bumper support = bracket bolts that connect the brackets to the subframe (2 bolts each = side). Next, chock the back wheels and jack up the front of the car, using a = floor jack on the cross-member. Raise the car far enough to place = jackstands at the very front end of the rocker panels. I used stands on = which the piece that contacts the car is cast. Its footprint roughly = matches the rectangular flat area on the rocker panel. Loosen the four remaining subframe bushing bolts, but do not remove. = Slowly lower the jack just far enough for the radiator support bushings to = clear the radiator support. You may have to reposition the jackstands once = or twice if the jack begins to move as a result of lowering the subframe. = Be sure to get all the hardware out (there are various washers and such in = there). Install the new bushings and slowly jack up the subframe. You may have to = coax the lip of the new bushings through the subframe holes. I used a = small flathead screwdriver. Install the bolts, but do not tighten. With the jack still supporting the weight of the subframe, replace the = remaining bushings one at a time. This is fairly easy, especially with the = steering coupler disconnected. Snug all 6 bolts, lower the car, and torque = all of the bolts. This is the step where Hugo's lift would come in handy, = as you want to torque everything with the car on the ground. That's all there was to it. If your bushings are the originals, you should = be extremely happy with the handling improvement. I sure was. Let us know = how it goes. If anyone sees a step I forgot, please speak up. Andy > > Subject: Procedure for changing Body Bushings > From: "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com> > Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:40:29 -0800 > > Does anyone have a procedure for changing the body bushings? I've never > attempted this and I want to try. There has got to be a painless way, > and I'm sure you guys have tried everything. May main questions are, > how do I lift the body away from the frame without screwing something > up. What needs to be disconnected (Andy mentioned disconnecting the > steering coupler). Do I need any special tools. > > Also, I was at Kragen and they carry "performance" poly urethane body > bushings for $60 (includes bolts and washers). Is this the going rate? > > Al
(back) Subject: RE: Procedure for changing Body Bushings From: "Andy" <fbird68@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:05:42 -0800 Dang, I knew as soon as I clicked send I'd think of something. Rather than chocking the back wheels, you should raise the back end. This will result in the car being level once you get the front ends of the rocker panels up on jackstands. I used ramps on the back, but you could use a second pair of jackstands. Andy
(back) Subject: re: 2nd fuel line From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:11:46 -0800 My 2nd line has been cut off near the body. Should I cap it off, or let it breath? If plugged, will it work O.K. ? Will it vent through the fuel cap ? Thanks. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Fuel Line Question From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 08:24:29 -0500 Steve, Yes exactly, three lines on the fuel pump...one to carb, one main feed = from the back, and now I know the third is the vapor return line. Both the = main feed and the vapor return line follow through the engine compartment down = to the frame and then back the car to the fuel tank. Keith 68 H.O> Subject: Re: Fuel Line question From: "Steve Manktelow" <twocan@colba.net> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 02:05:53 -0500 Sound like the pump to carb line. If you had a vapor return line, you should have three lines to your fuel pump. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: 400 Trunk Emblem From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:35:52 -0600 Steve, On my 69 the underside of the trunk lid already has the holes though the = frame were you attach the bolts to from the emblem to the lid. >>> SteveBrady1@aol.com 03/05/01 09:24PM >>> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... Anyone have a good picture of the 400 trunk emblem or a template for one? = I need to drill the holes in my trunk, so any tips/suggestions would be = greatly appreciated. Steve Brady 68 400 Drop Top http://members.nbci.com/srb/