First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Group get togethers... by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> leaking o-ring by "Niklas Ridell" <vcc2.nridell@memo.volvo.se> Redlines vs. RWL - thanks for advice! by "bird@mail.javanet.com" <bird@mail.javanet.com> RE: Air shocks? by "Mark Wurtzel" <mwurtzel@flash.net> More front end ???'s by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Re: Intro and link to parts by <peterskm@voicenet.com> leaking o-ring by "Erich Wagner" <ewagner@advancepac.com> 1969 Firebird Trans AM for sale by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Re: More front end ???'s by "John Wern" <jwern@charter.net> 68 front license plate bracket by "Charles Hazelton" <chuckhazelton@surfree.com> PA Birds by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> RE: 1969 Firebird Trans Am for sale. by "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> ADMN: List Problems by "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> 68 conv top boot clips by "Charles Hazelton" <chuckhazelton@surfree.com> RE: Firebird-L Digest #1792 by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Head flow # comparison (Attn. Niklas) by "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> Re: 1969 Firebird Trans Am for sale. by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Re: PA Birds by "Duane Benedict" <teachers@epix.net>
(back) Subject: Group get togethers... From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 06:40:10 -0600 It was brought up I think by Geoff about a week ago about getting the = First Gen group together at one of the larger Pontiac shows... As that is a = great idea, it may not be as feasible for anyone on the left coast or the right coast to attend, at least with their cars! How about setting up multiple gatherings? Like the two main Pontiac show = in the Mid West, as it has been mentioned there is a show in Mid May in Ocean City MD, and I'm sure quite a few others... and we have an All Pontiac = Show up here in the North West this summer. But what I was thinking (and it needs to be expanded on) is = if we all put our heads (keyboards) together we could come up with a tenitive schedule of events that would be happening in each region. Then we can report back on the events as they happen. Then we all have some thing to look forward to and all get together in one way or another. And if traveling, we can plan to catch up with others ion the list. To help keep the motivation going all year long... or until that last cruise with the heater cranked and the top down before the Bird goes into the Garage for it's winter slumber. Just a long idea... What do you guy's think? I know I'll be back in the SF Bay Area a few times, and perhaps in the CO area at some point, as well as OR and = up here in Washington Quake... I mean state! Think about it... Brett 67 Drop Top 455
(back) Subject: leaking o-ring From: "Niklas Ridell" <vcc2.nridell@memo.volvo.se> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:49:56 +0100 Guys I can't get the O-ring on the transmission dip stick tube to seat = properly. I've tried to lube it with trans oil but still it refuses to go down in = the trans with the tube without loosing shape. Should it really be this hard? As the THM400 is not original I start to suspect that a previous owner who installed this trans used a dipstick tube from another transmission = (2-speed or th350?) and that it doesn't fit. Is there a way to find out if this dip stick and = tube are correct for my transmission? Part number etc.? /Niklas 68 350 Coupe with a leaking thm 400
(back) Subject: Redlines vs. RWL - thanks for advice! From: "bird@mail.javanet.com" <bird@mail.javanet.com> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:19:27 -0500 I knew I could count on this awesome group to give good advice for a = dilemma unique to 1st gen firebirds! What I didn't count on is how different are all the opinions! I thought = we'd get a consensus - FAT CHANCE!!! LOL For those who have suggested redline radials, I know they exist but that's = cheating under my arbitrary rules. This is because I already own the RWL = radials, and I can get the E70-14 redlines cheap from a buddy, vs. paying = retail for radial redlines. To the extent that there is a semblance of a consensus, the trend is = toward keeping the RWLs on the RIIs and mounting the redlines on the steel = wheels with wire discs for show. Figures, since I'm sorta leaning toward = the redlines on RII's, which is a great look. I know the ride will suffer = a great deal, but in November I bought a 1992 Firebird convertible which I = will be using as my summer daily driver, easing the need for a "plush" = f-body ride. Thanks for the opinions, keep 'em coming! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at http://www.mail2web.com/ .
(back) Subject: RE: Air shocks? From: "Mark Wurtzel" <mwurtzel@flash.net> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:31:25 -0800 Hugo wrote: > Anyone know of a brand/part number of a set of air shocks that fit the = 69 > coupe? Silly question, but do '69's use different shocks than '68's? If so, do = you know what the differences are? Long story but I might have a new set of Gabriels for you. > If so, who carries them? No idea where to order 'em, we got the set we have at a swap meet. Drop me a line off list if you are interested. Mark mwurtzel@flash.net
(back) Subject: More front end ???'s From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 09:29:50 -0800 I need more parts for my front end: 1- Does anybody have the brackets to support the lower portion of the grills for sale ? 2- How about a pair of non 400 grills for sale ? (Repainting is no big deal) 3- Is there supossed to be a brace/bracket supporting the lower fender extensions ? Almost ready to put the front end back together CORRECTLY. Need a few more parts, thanks all. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Re: Intro and link to parts From: <peterskm@voicenet.com> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:52:59 US/Eastern A local get together would be a cool idea...any local car shows? I live = in Collegeville. Not far from either of you guys. As far as OC, I'd like to go, but I have a lot of work scheduled for the = bird and am not sure what state it'll be in for a drive to MD. Kevin >Keith, I live in Lancaster PA, not all that far >from Phila. Once I get = my car out of storage we >should try to get some of the local guys >together. >To everyone else on the east coast, is anyone >planning on going to the = Car Show/Cruise in >Ocean City, MD on May 16-19? It's always lots of >fun and there are = tons of cars, 3500+ last year. >This could be a good place for everyone to >gather for a = get together. > >Justin --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Voicenet WebMail. http://www.voicenet.com/webmail/
(back) Subject: leaking o-ring From: "Erich Wagner" <ewagner@advancepac.com> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:24:32 -0500 I have the opposite problem. The dip tube on my powerglide slips in too easily and therefore leaks. I would be interested in any suggestions that others can offer. Thanks, Erich =9267 326 Convert Guys I can't get the O-ring on the transmission dip stick tube to seat properly. I've tried to lube it with trans oil but still it refuses to go down in the trans with the tube without loosing shape. Should it really be this hard? As the THM400 is not original I start to suspect that a previous owner who installed this trans used a dipstick tube from another transmission (2-speed or th350?) and that it doesn't fit. Is there a way to find out if this dip stick and tube are correct for my transmission? Part number etc.? /Niklas 68 350 Coupe with a leaking thm 400
(back) Subject: 1969 Firebird Trans AM for sale From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:17:30 -0500 Bob: AMEN!!!!! Keith 68 H.O. Subject: RE: 1969 Firebird Trans Am for sale. From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 18:11:03 -0800 (PST) Bryan writes: >With what the placard said, I see how one would think this was original. = I >think it is a shame that someone may buy this and think they got the deal = >of >a life time. When in fact they got an over priced 69 Firebird. I hate = when >people advertise and leave the most important items out. This is one of the biggest problems in the world of collector cars and muscle cars. Is what is being offered for sale really what it appears to be? It would be wise of anyone in the market for any truly rare or collectable car to research and verify the car before laying down any cash. Luckily, Pontiacs are easier to verify than many other marks due to the availability of the PHS documentation. Still, there are plenty of stories about cloned GTOs and other Pontiacs, discovered only after the sale. Some of the mistakes can be avoided by trying to learn as much as one can about the type of car in question. And, learning how fakes or clones are created in order to be able to spot one. In some cases, it would also be wise to order the PHS docs directly rather than relying upon whatever the seller presents. Glenn (birdman), what would be the correct paint code found on the cowl tag for a '69 Trans Am? -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: More front end ???'s From: "John Wern" <jwern@charter.net> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:52:38 -0500 If you cant find them. I have a salvage yard that has a '67 with a = complete front end. I know yours is a '68 but maybe they are the same. I know = someone here could better answer that. If so... Just pay what they charge me and pay for shipping. And I have no idea what they'll charge me. They are pretty fair though. I bought a turbo 400 cross memeber from them for = $10.00 once and I bought "pontiac" for like $5.00. I remember they had a nova = with power disk brakes and he told me $150.00 for the whole set up. I was = stupid and didnt go back. BUT, the '67 has the grill and all. It seems to be in great shape. Let me know . John. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Porter <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> To: First Generation Firebird-L <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Date: Friday, March 02, 2001 1:03 PM Subject: More front end ???'s
(back) Subject: 68 front license plate bracket From: "Charles Hazelton" <chuckhazelton@surfree.com> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:37:37 -0800 Does anyone have one of these lying around they'd like to sell? I think = the aliens abducted mine. Grungy, slightly mangled condition is OK. Email off list if you do. chuckhazelton@surfree.com Thanks, Chuck. Chuck Hazelton 68 350 conv (off to get the new top & exhaust put on)
(back) Subject: PA Birds From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:38:00 -0500 Ok, sounds like a plan...however small it might be. Here is the PA contingency so far for Eastern/Central PA Jason Rogers from York Duane Aldrich from Lancaster Justin from Lancaster Keith Donmoyer from Pottstown I know Bull is from the Pocono area, could be to far for him. Maybe = Reading or up 222 a little farther (torwards Lancaster) would be a good area in springtime. Keith 68 H.O. Subject: Pennsylvania Birds... From: "Jason Rogers" <jason.rogers@york.com> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:13:07 -0500 Keith and Justin, I live in York, Pa currently. If you guys ever want to get together let = me know. My home email is jprogers@cyberia.com. Any other Pa bird owners = out there? Jason _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: RE: 1969 Firebird Trans Am for sale. From: "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:38:59 -0500 Niklas, Found these stock head flow #'s written by Pete McCarthy and High Performance Pontiac. I went to my friends house to check out his new 428,, = afterwards, hopped on his sites, and found these flow #'sThese #'s should help clear up any performance issues on different heads.. = Tom 1967 No. 670 (1967 400 & 428 large-valve--GTO, GP, FB 400)Cast date: J156 = Grade:1 (Note: valve inclination angle decreased to 14=B0 from 20=B0)Valve = sizes: 2.11/1.77Intake port volume (2 ports): 152.3 & 153 cc'sIntake(D) = Flow (cfm) Exhaust(D) Flow (cfm) Exh./Int. ..100 73 75 .100 39 43 .55 ..200 130 129 .200 76 79 .59 ..300 148 150 .300 100 104 .68 ..400 155 156 .400 117 117 .75 ..500 161 160 .500 122 124 .77 ..600 163 161 .600 129 128 .79 1970 No. 12 (1970 Ram Air III 400, D-port)Date cast: H019 Grade: 1Valve = sizes; 2.11 /1.77Intake(D) Flow (cfm) Exhaust(S) Flow (cfm) Exh./Int. ..100 73 71 .100 32 .44 ..200 122 126 .200 75 .60 ..300 151 151 .300 102 .68 ..400 162 158 .400 115 .72 ..500 164 162 .500 126 .77 ..600 167 165 .600 132 .80 1968-69 No. 16 (1968-69 400 & 428 large-valve D-port)Date cast: A228 Grade: 2 (1 cfm seat leakage)Valve sizes: 2.11 /1.77Intake port volume (2 ports): 154 & 154.7 cc's.Intake(D) Flow (cfm) Exhaust(S) Flow = (cfm) Exh./Int. ..100 71 74 .100 46 .63 ..200 126 122 .200 84 .68 ..300 153 155 .300 106 .69 ..400 158 158 .400 124 .78 ..500 162 167 .500 132 .80 ..600 165 167 .600 140 .84 1969 NO. 48 (1969 400 "Ram Air III" D-port)Date cast: K308 = Grade: 2 (worn guides)Valve sizes: 2.11/1.77Intake(D) Flow (cfm) Exhaust(S) Flow (cfm) Exh./Int. ..100 67 75 .100 38 .54 ..200 116 119 .200 77 .66 ..300 148 152 .300 103 .69 ..400 156 159 .400 119 .76 ..500 160 161 .500 128 .80 ..600 165 166 .600 131 .79 Best performance head 1970 Ram AirIV Best intake port 1969-70 Ram Air V Best exhaust port 19681~ Ram Air II Best D-port head No.16, No.48, No.12 (tie) Best low-compression D-port head #96 1971 Best low-compression post-1972 head No.6X Best balanced head (exhaust to intake)1963421 SD Best low-lift (under .400) head 1967 No.670 Worst exhaust-to-intake port ratio 1969-70 Ram Air V Worst intake-to exhaust ratio 19681/2 Ram Air II Biggest surprise Intake port, No.17 350 head Biggest disappointment 1969-70 RA V, 1973-74 455 SD (tie) Biggest "sleeper" 1975 No. 5C Most undercammed 1963 SD, 1971 455 HO, 1973-74465 SD (tie) Mostunderexhausted 1964 GTO (No.9770716) Most potential for porting 1973-74455 SD, 19681/2 RA II (tie) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: ADMN: List Problems From: "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:20:03 -0500 Seems with the earthquake problems and a change at my service provider some messages never made it out to the list. If you think your message never made it to the list, resend it. Some of you have been cut off from email systems for a couple of days. Hate to think if there is ever a major earthquake in California since this list and web site along with many other major providers and web sites are based there. Above does not consider the major issues besides the trivial problems with email the people in the affected area are going through. Any questions, let me know - Geoff <Geoff@FirstGenFirebird.org>
(back) Subject: 68 conv top boot clips From: "Charles Hazelton" <chuckhazelton@surfree.com> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:23:15 -0800 Back for more help, please. In the 21 years we've owned this car it never had a top boot. Ordered a new one & the clips came in a plastic bag with = no instructions. Can anyone point me to info on installing the clips to the boot? Thanks a bunch, Chuck.
(back) Subject: RE: Firebird-L Digest #1792 From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:37:58 -0600 Hey guys, does anyone out there have a seat of Harland Sharp 1.65 rocker arms they might want to sell? I'm in search of a set, and wanted to check with you guys before I bought from Jegs or Summit or some place like = that... Thanks, Brett in Seattle - 67 Drop top 455!
(back) Subject: Head flow # comparison (Attn. Niklas) From: "Tom Grzywacz" <ban67shee@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 17:02:13 -0500 Niklas, Found these stock head flow #'s written by Pete McCarthy and High Performance Pontiac. I went to my friends house to check out his new 428, afterwards, hopped on his sites, and found these flow #'s. These #'s = should help clear up any performance issues on different heads.. Tom 1967 No. 670 (1967 400 & 428 large-valve--GTO, GP, FB 400)Cast date: J156 = Grade:1 (Note: valve inclination angle decreased to 14=B0 from 20=B0)Valve = sizes: 2.11/1.77Intake port volume (2 ports): 152.3 & 153 cc'sIntake(D) = Flow (cfm) Exhaust(D) Flow (cfm) Exh./Int. ..100 73 75 .100 39 43 .55 ..200 130 129 .200 76 79 .59 ..300 148 150 .300 100 104 .68 ..400 155 156 .400 117 117 .75 ..500 161 160 .500 122 124 .77 ..600 163 161 .600 129 128 .79 1970 No. 12 (1970 Ram Air III 400, D-port)Date cast: H019 Grade: 1Valve = sizes; 2.11 /1.77Intake(D) Flow (cfm) Exhaust(S) Flow (cfm) Exh./Int. ..100 73 71 .100 32 .44 ..200 122 126 .200 75 .60 ..300 151 151 .300 102 .68 ..400 162 158 .400 115 .72 ..500 164 162 .500 126 .77 ..600 167 165 .600 132 .80 1968-69 No. 16 (1968-69 400 & 428 large-valve D-port)Date cast: A228 Grade: 2 (1 cfm seat leakage)Valve sizes: 2.11 /1.77Intake port volume (2 ports): 154 & 154.7 cc's.Intake(D) Flow (cfm) Exhaust(S) Flow = (cfm) Exh./Int. ..100 71 74 .100 46 .63 ..200 126 122 .200 84 .68 ..300 153 155 .300 106 .69 ..400 158 158 .400 124 .78 ..500 162 167 .500 132 .80 ..600 165 167 .600 140 .84 1969 NO. 48 (1969 400 "Ram Air III" D-port)Date cast: K308 = Grade: 2 (worn guides)Valve sizes: 2.11/1.77Intake(D) Flow (cfm) Exhaust(S) Flow (cfm) Exh./Int. ..100 67 75 .100 38 .54 ..200 116 119 .200 77 .66 ..300 148 152 .300 103 .69 ..400 156 159 .400 119 .76 ..500 160 161 .500 128 .80 ..600 165 166 .600 131 .79 Best performance head 1970 Ram AirIV Best intake port 1969-70 Ram Air V Best exhaust port 19681~ Ram Air II Best D-port head No.16, No.48, No.12 (tie) Best low-compression D-port head #96 1971 Best low-compression post-1972 head No.6X Best balanced head (exhaust to intake)1963421 SD Best low-lift (under .400) head 1967 No.670 Worst exhaust-to-intake port ratio 1969-70 Ram Air V Worst intake-to exhaust ratio 19681/2 Ram Air II Biggest surprise Intake port, No.17 350 head Biggest disappointment 1969-70 RA V, 1973-74 455 SD (tie) Biggest "sleeper" 1975 No. 5C Most undercammed 1963 SD, 1971 455 HO, 1973-74465 SD (tie) Mostunderexhausted 1964 GTO (No.9770716) Most potential for porting 1973-74455 SD, 19681/2 RA II (tie) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: 1969 Firebird Trans Am for sale. From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:23:18 -0800 (PST) John (Framair) writes: >...Bob, you bring up a valid point here. Because there is a problem >with seller's trying to pass off a car as something it isn't, = documentation >is very important. However, it too can be altered to represent something >that isn't genuine. For this very reason, the PMD Billing History copies >being sold by PHS should contain some sort of 'tamper-proof' feature. >Once upon a time, the copy sent out used to be on a sepia (brownish) >tone gloss paper. This was somewhat better than a simple xerox copy. >Better still would be a watermark, stamp or unique embossed mark. >All of these features can be done without hardly any significant cost >(ask any print shop). No doubt about it, there have been cases where PHS docs have been forged, and this is done easily enough given the format in which they are currently offered. That's why I suggested that the buyer pursue getting the docs straight from PHS. Unfortunately, this is time consuming. As has been mentioned in the past, it would great if PHS offered an express service, given that a sale may be pending on the delivery of the documents. Aside from that, presenting the docs in a more difficult to forge form would be nice too. I think that given that many Pontiac models are at or heading towards collectible status, and that large sums of money are at stake in many cases, there will be increasing pressure on PHS to update its service. But this will be a good thing. If PHS sees the benefit in offering one of both of these suggestions, they will only make themselves more valuable to the hobby. Verification isn't just a Pontiac or car buff problem. The fine arts and antiquities trade faces very much the same problems. Forgeries are very common, and authentication is very important. Even world renowned experts have been tricked by some very clever crooks. And then there is the question of provenance, or proof of origin. Where did the item come from? Was it illegally stolen from a museum, or archeological site? There are a lot of antiquities in American exhibits that have questionable origins. Sorry to go on such an odd tangent, but I have a keen interest in this field. -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible bob.cisneros@Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Re: PA Birds From: "Duane Benedict" <teachers@epix.net> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 17:58:56 -0500 Add me to the PA list. Duane Benedict, Hallstead We're in the north country, too. How far is Wilkes-Barre or Hazleton for you guys? -- Duane ---------------------------------------------------------- Ephesians 2:8,9 http://home.epix.net/~teachers See the baby at http://home.epix.net/~teachers/baby.html ---------------------------------------------------------- Keith Donmoyer wrote: > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Ok, sounds like a plan...however small it might be. Here is the PA > contingency so far for Eastern/Central PA > > Jason Rogers from York > Duane Aldrich from Lancaster > Justin from Lancaster > Keith Donmoyer from Pottstown > > I know Bull is from the Pocono area, could be to far for him. Maybe = Reading or up 222 a little farther (torwards Lancaster) would be a good = area in springtime. > > Keith > 68 H.O. >