First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List re: For sale by "Clayton C Koch" <CCKoch@bellsouth.net> RE: Cam properties by "Trimpe, Bob" <TrimpeB@rajones.com> 69 Firebird for sale by <TA4283x2@aol.com> Bills Birds/Quarters by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Lighted Ashtray by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Bills Birds by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Swap Meet in TEXAS on the 17th by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> ashtray light by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Fiber optic ash tray by "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com> Re: Bill's Birds by "Geoff Swavley" <geoffswavley@yahoo.com.au> Bills Birds by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> ashtray light hookup by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Re: non-Firebird help by "scott" <saltyd@home.com> 67 tires by "Eddie Pettit" <eddie@thepettitfamily.org> RE: 69 Firebird for sale by "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> RE: Bills Birds/Quarters by "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Re: 67 tires by <hugoba@apcom.com> Re: 67 tires by "Eddie Pettit" <eddie@thepettitfamily.org> Re: What engine is this? by <Studderin@aol.com> Re: Cam properties by <Studderin@aol.com> Re: non-Firebird help by "Glenn Uettwiller" <birdman@gdi.net> Re: non-Firebird help by "Glenn Uettwiller" <birdman@gdi.net>
(back) Subject: re: For sale From: "Clayton C Koch" <CCKoch@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 06:58:45 -0500 Sorry all. I thought that the e-mail was included when we post. Mine shows who sent them out. Yes this is my Bird and John Wern has seen it first hand. John has some good pictures so I`ll get him to scan them to me.E-mail is.... cckoch@bellsouth.net. Also daytime phone is 423-698-3388.Thanks all Clayton
(back) Subject: RE: Cam properties From: "Trimpe, Bob" <TrimpeB@rajones.com> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 07:45:38 -0500 Thanks for the great response. Sounds like your buddy really knows his stuff. Our Pontiacs do have pedestal style rockers. The upside is that it makes rocker adjustments a breeze. The downside is that a change in base circle causes big headaches, like different pushrods. I guess my next question would be -- how can I tell if my lifter is still compressed with the new cam? What is the typical distance that a lifter is compressed on a Pontiac -- is it half the total lifter distance? If so, I can calculate whether I have enough travel... Math....(exits mumbling) Bob Trimpe 'o) -----Original Message----- From: Paddy68@aol.com [mailto:Paddy68@aol.com] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 4:33 AM To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Subject: Re: Cam properties First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... I have a new cam for my 350. I laid it next to the older one and took some measurements -- min and max for the intake and exhaust lobes. I saw something interesting. The new cam has more lift than the old cam (max. minus min.), but the lobes are not as tall! I finally figured out that the base circle of the lobes on the new cam is smaller than the old one. How can this be? The min dimension (base circle) should be just small enough to close the valve -- no smaller. If the base circle is smaller than that, all you would be doing is allowing the hydraulic lifter to uncompress. Any cam gurus out there? I want to understand this before I put the cam = in. As always, thanks for the help. Bob Trimpe I sent this question to a buddy of mine who owns a machine/speed shop and asked him to answer it. The following is his reply to my email. I hope = it helps since the question was so over my head that the answer made it spin = a little too. Good luck The smaller base circle on the new cam will either allow the hydraulic piston to decompress on a fixed rocker arm system (ford or pedestal type) or will = mandate the rocker adjusting nut to be screwed down further on an = adjustable style (Chevy). If you have a pedestal style rocker make sure there is enough travel left in the lifter to accommodate the difference in base circle. = If there is not enough travel, longer pushrods will be required. Think of the same situation (different base circles) with a solid lifter cam. The lift is not determined by the height of the lobe but rather the difference in height between the heel and nose of the lobe. The smaller base circle on the new cam will either allow the hydraulic piston to decompress on a fixed rocker arm system (ford or pedestal type) or will = mandate the rocker adjusting nut to be screwed down further on an = adjustable style (Chevy). If you have a pedestal style rocker, make sure there is enough travel left in the lifter to accommodate the difference in base circle. If there is not enough travel, longer pushrods will be required.
(back) Subject: 69 Firebird for sale From: <TA4283x2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:22:13 EST 1969 Firebird for sale. Off frame restoration begun. New lower quarter = panels frt and rear,truck lid,perfect doors,undercarriage undercoated and = sealed,all new frame and leaf spring bushings,dash panel,guages and clock refurbished,all chrome mlgs,emblems and lettering polished and = re-enamel.Car has tilt steering with disc brakes. No motor,trans or hood.Car is about = 20% done and still needs work.Was making a T/A clone but lost interest and = time. $1300 firm. E-mail me if you are interested.Pic coming soon. Thanks,Gary.
(back) Subject: Bills Birds/Quarters From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:17:48 -0500 Mace, Are you sh---ing me? They finally made them and have them in the catalog? = My catalog is old and no trace of them. What have you heard about them. What is pretty good??......also price? Thanks. Keith 68 H.O. Subject: RE: Bills Birds From: "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:43:24 -0500 Keith, Glad we could help with Bill's Bird's. Yes Classic has has the = tooling for about a year for the 68 quarters. They are in the current catalog and from what I hear they are pretty good. Mace 69 350 Drop-Top _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Lighted Ashtray From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:22:22 -0500 Chris, let me know how you make out. My 68 coupe H.O. has the fiber optics to = the ashtray, but they do not work. This is on my long list of "to do's" Keith 68 H.O. Subject: lighted ashtray ? From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:04:56 -0800 I was looking at this E-bay item, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D5552784= 97&r=3D0&t=3D0. Do all of our birds ashtray's have the slot to illuminate the ashtry ? Was this uncommon ? I was thinking about going to the local bone yard and getting the fibire optics out of a little newer bird and installing it. I remember my `74 SD car having this. Think it would be easy to find. Thanks. Chris _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Bills Birds From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:24:06 -0500 Joe, Thanks for the info. Do you have their number? I want to check out both options and of course prices. Keith 68 H.O. Subject: Re: Bills Birds From: <JGeigel@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:05:46 EST Keith, I gave up on the repro quarters, but Franks in L.A. seems to have original used coupe sets in stock. I bought a coupe and used them on my convert. Much, much better than any other alternative. Joe Geigel _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Swap Meet in TEXAS on the 17th From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 09:53:56 -0600 There is a swap meet in Conroe Texas on the 17 th at the Montgomery County = Fairgrounds. Conroe is located 30 miles north of Houston on I45. I will = be there on Saturday morning picking up quarter panel skins and outer = fender wells. I will be wearing a camel color ball cap the has a big = "Pontiac Racing" logo on it. Frank
(back) Subject: ashtray light From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 08:55:14 -0800 I let you know Keith. I think it 'll be easy, and lot less than the $40 I saw that ashtray going for on E-bay. You said your car has this but it's not working. Is the fibre optics still in tact ? I'll be doing it (attempting) in a week or two, I'll let you know what happens. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Fiber optic ash tray From: "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 09:34:06 -0800 My car has the fiber optic ash tray. In the process of removing the ash tray many years ago, I lost track of how the cable secures to the ash tray - or did I break off a plastic tab that held it in place. The cable end has a brown plastic termination, but nothing to secure it to the ash tray metal. Is there a metal clip or something? Thanks Al
(back) Subject: Re: Bill's Birds From: "Geoff Swavley" <geoffswavley@yahoo.com.au> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 05:31:37 +1100 (EST) ...... > When you call him tell him I said to start on his 68 4 speed 400 > convertible. This was his very first Bird and he won't sell it or start > on it. He has let it sit for 10 years without restoring it. I have > been on his case for at least that long for him to get to it. On this topic ... and not too removed as there are some pontiacs there - check out this web site: http://carsinbarns.homestead.com A friend of mine is a mopar lover and this site makes him (and me!) just cringe .... worst of all it makes me feel guilty that after 11 years my Ram Air 1 car is still not on the road ..... but I'm trying real hard now to finish it! (I still can't believe the number of rare superbirds and daytona chargers that are rusting because people won't sell them ..... but they won't restore them either ... I'd better stop before I cry!) Geoff. ___________________________________________________________________________= __ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment?
(back) Subject: Bills Birds From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:48:54 -0500 Mace, Just an update. I just got off the phone with Classic. Yes they have the = tooling for the full 68 rear quarters, but they are unhappy with the = current production quality and are not selling them to the public yet. The sales rep told me that honestly they are 6 months to a year away from good sellable panels. Disappointing, but also good to know. Now I can pursue used quarters or budget my time for the arrival of the repros. Keith 68 H.O. Subject: RE: Bills Birds From: "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:43:24 -0500 Keith, Glad we could help with Bill's Bird's. Yes Classic has has the = tooling for about a year for the 68 quarters. They are in the current catalog and from what I hear they are pretty good. Mace 69 350 Drop-Top _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: ashtray light hookup From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:59:08 -0800 Hey Al, look at this picture on E-bay, that should help explain it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D5552784= 97&r=3D0&t=3D0 Hope this helps. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Re: non-Firebird help From: "scott" <saltyd@home.com> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:49:00 -0600 Glenn it has been my experience that almost all GM's with the lock-up converter end up doing this sooner or later. I have seen a ton of em come = in at work. You are right you probably need a trans rebuild. At work if the customer agrees it is ok, and we have fully explained what will happen, = then we unplug the tcc converter connector and poof the problem goes away but = so does overdrive. So if you need a little time to get the money together = then just unplug it till you got the money to fix. Sometimes they can just go = in and replace the tcc solenoid in the trans but I am sure it has a few miles on it and could probably used a complete rebuild. Just depends on your situation and plans for the car. BTW the tcc plug would be on the front = side of the trans facing the radiator. It is usually a square connector that = has a place for 4 wires but doesn't always have 4 wires connected to it. I believe it is blue(not 100 percent on the color). Anyway hope this helps sounds like you already knew the answer just wanted some back up.
(back) Subject: 67 tires From: "Eddie Pettit" <eddie@thepettitfamily.org> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:03:28 -0500 As my first official post to the list, not just a reply to another = message, I'd like to find out what size/brand of tires you guys are running on the stock 14" rally wheels. My 67 Firebird 400 arrived today. It has a drive train, the body is a little rough in places. The numbers match, decent interior...
(back) Subject: RE: 69 Firebird for sale From: "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:45:33 -0500 Gary, I am very interested in the car. Would love to have a Drop Top and a HardTop. Please email me with the pics and other info @ Macef@optonline.net....Thanks Mace 1969 Firebird for sale. Off frame restoration begun. New lower quarter panels frt and rear,truck lid,perfect doors,undercarriage undercoated and sealed,all new frame and leaf spring bushings,dash panel,guages and clock refurbished,all chrome mlgs,emblems and lettering polished and = re-enamel.Car has tilt steering with disc brakes. No motor,trans or hood.Car is about = 20% done and still needs work.Was making a T/A clone but lost interest and = time. $1300 firm. E-mail me if you are interested.Pic coming soon. Thanks,Gary.
(back) Subject: RE: Bills Birds/Quarters From: "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:47:39 -0500 Sorry Keith, I thought they had all of the problems ironed out...Sorry List for = the Bad Information...Won't happen again Mace 69 350 Drop-Top Mace, Are you sh---ing me? They finally made them and have them in the catalog? My catalog is old and no trace of them. What have you heard about them. What is pretty good??......also price? Thanks. Keith 68 H.O.
(back) Subject: Re: 67 tires From: <hugoba@apcom.com> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:25:36 -0800 (PST) I run BFG 235-60's on my 67 400. I get just a bit of rub on the frame at = full wheel lock but it's not too bad. The backs clear just fine and they fill the wells nicely. Hugo > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Fri Feb 9 20:07:28 2001 > From: "Eddie Pettit" <eddie@thepettitfamily.org> > To: "First Generation Firebird-L" <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > Subject: 67 tires > Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:03:28 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > As my first official post to the list, not just a reply to another = message, > I'd like to find out what size/brand of tires you guys are running on = the > stock 14" rally wheels. > > My 67 Firebird 400 arrived today. It has a drive train, the body is a > little rough in places. The numbers match, decent interior... > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
(back) Subject: Re: 67 tires From: "Eddie Pettit" <eddie@thepettitfamily.org> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:33:20 -0500 LOL! Of course it has a drive train! That was meant to say, it has a STRONG drivetrain. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eddie Pettit" <eddie@thepettitfamily.org> > My 67 Firebird 400 arrived today. It has a drive train, the body is a
(back) Subject: Re: What engine is this? From: <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:48:52 EST In a message dated 2/7/01 4:55:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bob.Cisneros@ebay.sun.com writes: << Larry Diede writes: >Can anyone ID this engine? I was looking in the salvage yard the other = day and >came accross a 78 Catalina. the code on the block (front pass side = below the >head) was PXN, the heads were 01. It had Pontiac type valve covers and timing >chain cover. The oil pan looked a little different. I can find no correlating >engine number or heads in the archeives. The PNX code would indicate the much maligned 301 engine, of 1979 vintage. And the 01 head code would be correct 301. -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible >> Larry, # 01 heads are a 301 head (stock motor) Other visuals of a 301 are: The oil filter is horizontal. It points straight out the side of the = block, not 90' downward. I've heard of 301s having the larger Q-jet. I always look but haven't seen = one yet maybe it's only on 301 tubo's ??? Open the choke plate, and clime = up IN the engine compartment and look down the primary's. Make sure the hood doesn't fall on you, The hood an a 81 TA very heavy, and latch will split = you skull easy. I happened to me. 750 Q-jets (98% of them) have a bump type ring all the way around the = cucufrents of the primary bores. The 800 cfm's have the ring only about a tenth of the way around the bores. The two flathead screws in airhorn if = will fall down into the baseplate on a 800, and the ring stop it on a 750 so = you can easy get them, ( they rest on the booster, about the same depth as the = bumps. It's hard to explain But you can get the 301 really cheap. Not for the motor but for the bolts,brakets, valve covers, thermo-cluch fan, pulleys, accoriors for = cores and other stuff I'm not positve about. The Hei will not work in a 326 to 455, But I sure you can use the = shaft as a oil pump primer. The intake is different and long block is junk. john cosello
(back) Subject: Re: Cam properties From: <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:04:39 EST In a message dated 2/8/01 11:10:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, TrimpeB@rajones.com writes: << = ......................................................................... I have a new cam for my 350. I laid it next to the older one and took = some measurements -- min and max for the intake and exhaust lobes. I saw something interesting. The new cam has more lift than the old cam (max. minus min.), but the lobes are not as tall! I finally figured out that the base circle of the lobes on the new cam is smaller than the old one. How can this be? The min dimension (base = circle) should be just small enough to close the valve -- no smaller. If the base circle is smaller than that, all you would be doing is allowing the hydraulic lifter to uncompress. Any cam gurus out there? I want to understand this before I put the cam = in. As always, thanks for the help. Bob Trimpe >> Bob It is true the if the min to max are way differnt that you may need new pushrods. They start with a core that has all round lobes and grind the lift = "into" the cam. The reson they grind cams that way is so the cam can actullay fit = into the motor. i.e. the lobes would be too tall to phyicaly fit in the berrings, you could't intall the cam. John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: non-Firebird help From: "Glenn Uettwiller" <birdman@gdi.net> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 02:20:34 -0500 Harkness Clan wrote: > --This is quite common,the problem is usually the TCC solenoid (in the > "side" cover), > which sticks & prevents the TCC from disengaging.If the trans is a 3 = spd > auto (TH125c) > you can just unplug the TCC (plug at front of trans),of course this will > mean a slight increase in RPM at speed (with resulting loss of fuel > economy,increase noise, > yada,yada,yada).You must do this while its cold (before it has applied & > stuck). > OTOH,if you have the 4spd auto (th440) you CAN NOT leave it unplugged or > trans > will fail due to oiling issues. > > --Plug wires are common problem,also check fuel pressure &/or fuel = filter > restricted. > > ---Obviously you'll want to check the T-stat,these newer cars don't like > running too cool. > > Good Luck, Bill H. > Thanks so much, Bill. It seems I have the 3-speed clutched unit, it came up as a 4T30 in my GM-SPO production options book. I disconnected the plug on the TCC and will report back. I was figuring on spark plugs and wires anyway, since the car appears to have been neglected service-wise in recent times as evidenced by the nasty oil and trans fluid. I remember that during the time I was at the Buick dealer that these engines have a distributor-less DIS (direct ignition system with a coil pack or three) that are prone to carbon-tracking. I suppose the whistle is a minor vacuum leak somewhere, also requiring a look. The temp gauge must be way off though, since I understand the fans don't come on until something like 220 degrees measured I-don't-know-where. The needle is barely on the first notch. Glenn aka birdman
(back) Subject: Re: non-Firebird help From: "Glenn Uettwiller" <birdman@gdi.net> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 02:37:29 -0500 scott wrote: > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Glenn it has been my experience that almost all GM's with the lock-up > converter end up doing this sooner or later. I have seen a ton of em = come in > at work. You are right you probably need a trans rebuild. At work if the > customer agrees it is ok, and we have fully explained what will happen, = then > we unplug the tcc converter connector and poof the problem goes away but = so > does overdrive. So if you need a little time to get the money together = then > just unplug it till you got the money to fix. Sometimes they can just go = in > and replace the tcc solenoid in the trans but I am sure it has a few = miles > on it and could probably used a complete rebuild. Just depends on your > situation and plans for the car. BTW the tcc plug would be on the front = side > of the trans facing the radiator. It is usually a square connector that = has > a place for 4 wires but doesn't always have 4 wires connected to it. I > believe it is blue(not 100 percent on the color). Anyway hope this helps > sounds like you already knew the answer just wanted some back up. Hey Salty, thanks for the advice. Together with Bill's note, I think I will get a handle on it - you'll have seen my response before this. BTW I disconnected TCC on the 87 Safari wagon, cured that one too. That was at 205,000 miles - pretty good for the 200-4R! I intend for this car to satisfy my topless needs, and for my girlfriend to borrow. I haven't told her yet, and we're probably some ways away from marriage, but it should become hers about then. She rode in it tonight, and confirmed that she's a convertible gal!! Even with the miserable performance and cool weather, she was giddy. Sue's been living with a '94 Cavalier for longer than the 3 years we've known each other, and this is SOOO much more car than that little 4-banger coupe. The only obstacle is seating for 4, 'cause when she's got her 4 kids we can't all fit in it, even if the 16-year-old stays behind. The really SAD news is her boys, 11 and 8, had NEVER ridden in a topless car before. I'm not sure about the girls yet. No wonder our kids are so messed up in this generation!! I did check with our GM supplier, and a SRTA @ cost is $929 + $195 core. The SRTA units have a great warranty as I recall. I am not sure I'd invest $6-700 for a bench-built unit with little or no warranty, and I did buy this thing about $1000 below book for above average condition - especially the cosmetics. Glenn aka birdman PS Anybody wanna buy a 90 Civic?