First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Re: OK don't laugh by <hugoba@apcom.com> engine miss by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Re: Engine miss - more info. by <hugoba@apcom.com> Re: Engine miss battle by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Pulley problems by "Niklas Ridell" <vcc2.nridell@memo.volvo.se> Re: Ignition lock. by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: Disconnecting A TVS Switch? by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: fan question??? by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> help! 3.90 rear end q's by "Joseph Cione" <cione@aoml.noaa.gov>
(back) Subject: Re: OK don't laugh From: <hugoba@apcom.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:20:34 -0800 (PST) I just helped my friend pick up a free 71 AMC Hornet (no one would pay for = it and they were going to have to pay $75.00 to have it hauled away). The = thing had been sitting for 10 years in this elderly ladies garage (she passed = away last year at 103 and had stopped driving it 10 years ago. She had bought = it brand new in 71!) After cleaning up the starter and puting a new battery in it, the darn = thing started right up and caughed all kinds of garbage out. A little bit more work and for under $100.00 he'll have a good little car = for his wife. Goes to show you how resiliant these things are (although if the thing had = been stored outside it would probably be a different story). Hugo > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Thu Jan 18 10:12:13 2001 > X-Sender: fishgod@mail.iglou.com > Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:48:36 -0500 > To: "First Generation Firebird-L" <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > From: Michael Howell <fishgod@iglou.com> > Subject: Re: OK don't laugh > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > After cleaning the critter-crap out, see if you can turn the engine by > hand. If not, first thing I would do is get some Marvel Mystery Oil and = > put some down each of the cylinders. Let it sit at least one night and > then try to turn the engine by hand again. It should free up = eventually.. > but if it was stuck it's probably not in the best condition. Go on and > pull that gas tank down and have it cleaned out. If it's been sitting a = > few years there is a good chance of sludge and rust in there. You can = get > a kit from POR-15 (www.por15.com) that works well for cleaning and > sealing... or if it's too far gone just get a replacement tank. If you = > don't want to clean it yourself, take it to a radiator shop, most will > clean gas tanks for around $30-40. While it's out, flush out the fuel > line(s) with some fresh gas and change the fuel filter. Once you've got = > this done and the engine will turn by hand, I would change the oil and = then > try to start it. I've seen cars sitting a lot longer than a few years = get > started by this method... Good luck! > > Mike > '68 350 Coupe > > - - - - > > step is cleaning the engine well, checking wires, etc. Then I need some = > input on starting an engine that hasn't turned over in a few years. I > guess another question is going to be the fuel tank - any chance of crud = in > there and what do you do about that? Thanks guys! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
(back) Subject: engine miss From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:50:14 -0800 >Thanks guys for you're support. Ok, you asked for more info. so here it >goes. Don't laugh too loud at me! No laughing. CHANGE those wires 1st. As far as the resistor, alway's had them on the firewall. Don't know if the intake is the best place, but don't see a real problem. Someone else may know better. It sound's like your lean to me as well. Start with the wires and go from there. The best advice I can give is, do one thing at a time. Then check result's. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top ( still up, winter :( )
(back) Subject: Re: Engine miss - more info. From: <hugoba@apcom.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:13:40 -0800 (PST) Al, I would replace the wires (I don't think that 7mm or 8mm would matter but = go with the 8's since you may be zapping more voltage). I would check the = initial timing and thirdly I would bet that the car is running too rich. If it = doesn't like the chocke it sounds like it's too rich and some of your other = symptoms (long idling causing problems) sounds like the floats are missadjusted and = you may be getting excessive fuel dumping into the carb. I just went through a similar battle on my old 64 Olds with a bad float = and the thing ran awful. Now that the float seems to fixed and adjusted it runs = much better and doesn't hickup (now I have a nasty oil leak that's developed = but that's a different issue). Hugo > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Thu Jan 18 19:58:55 2001 > Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:57:51 -0800 > From: "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: First Generation Firebird-L <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > Subject: Engine miss - more info. > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Thanks guys for you're support. Ok, you asked for more info. so here it > goes. Don't laugh too loud at me! > > The miss appears to be random but quite frequent, as much as once every > 1/10th of second. The miss appears to get worse as the engine warms > up. On a cold start I'm not sure it's even there. Under heavy > acceleration while cold, I can't detect anything. As it warms up, it > becomes more noticeable, both at idle and load. The engine begins to > idle very rough when I've been sitting in bumper to bumper traffic for > extended periods (+10 minutes), to the point where it's going to stall, > but it hasn't stalled yet. Once I start moving, the idling smoothes out > some. > > I replaced the stock coil with the MSD coil because I could see my dwell > meter jump around a bit. After replacing with the MSD, the jumping > stopped. I thought I had solved the miss problem. Here's a dumb > question. Does it matter that the resistor that came with the MSD is > mounted on the intake manifold? I thought about mounting it to the > firewall but didn't want to add another hole. There were no > recommendations in the instructions. > > I thought about changing the sparc plug wires. I have AC/Delco 7 mm > wires on there now. Since I switched to the MSD coil, do I need to > increase the wire size to 8 mm, or should I buy another set of AC/Delco > 7 mm? What about after after adding the Pertonix ignition? > > I switched from a 2 bbl carb single exhaust, to a 4 bbl dual exhaust. > Do I need to change the heat range of my spark plugs (AC 45 in there now > I think). Checking the plugs, I've noticed they are not the golden > brown color, but more on the white side. I guess it's too lean. I've > never opened up an Edlebrock before, so I can't say that I've re-jeted > the thing. I bought it used, slapped it in, and it worked fine as is, > so I didn't chjange anything. Any tips would be helpful. > > Something else that may be related. I discovered my vacuum advance > wasn't was working, so I replaced the vacuum motor on the distributor. > The miss seemed to get worse shortly after I did that (Initially, I > didn't even know I had a miss). I doubt it's related to the miss. > > One last thing, I started messing with the electric choke. The engine > doesn't like any choke which I thought was strange. I have it set wide > open for now (no choke). Any ideas? > > Thanks > Al > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
(back) Subject: Re: Engine miss battle From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:12:50 -0800 First, a few questions that may help us close in on this a little more.... Do you drive at least 40 minutes once a month? Is hot/cold engine a factor? what is you engine/cam? how would you rate the overall condition of your valvetrain? Then some rambling:.... >It's a random miss. It almost sounds like it's carburetor related. An EGR valve not closing properly will give a similar symptom...they can = be cleaned, but you probably don't have one. >I've replaced the following: >Plugs, point, cap, rotor, fuel filter, (wires are about 7 years old >with = >about 10K miles), coil (MSD Blaster w resistor). Dwell is 30 >degrees, Sounds good, Wires should have less than 4000 Ohms/foot resistance. if a wire shocks you it is usually bad >timing is set, manifold vacuum is about 18 - 19 in and steady. I've That sounds healthy >pinched off all the vacuum lines and there was no change in the vacuum >reading or RPM. I've also tried spraying carb cleaner around the carb >and intake. No changes in RPM were detected. If with a short spray acros the top of the carb, the idle smooths temporarily, for one reason or another, the mixture is lean. >What about the timing chain? I was told I should measure the slack by >moving the crank to TDC, then rotate in the opposite direction until >the = >distributor moves, the read the timing mark where at the point the >distributor moved. If it was greater than 2 degrees, the chain and >gear = >should be replaced. Is this correct? I wouldn't wory about 3degrees too much, more is no good >I'm wondering about the carb. It's an Edelbrock 600 CFM. What should >I = >look for? I have the same one, take the top off and look for dirt inside...its 50x easier than a q-jet...probably don't even need a new gasket. For rough mixture adjust, turn the screws IN untill idle starts to drop, then back out maybe 1/4th turn. I am impressed with the servicability of these carbs....For an air leak with a gas leak on top, theyre pretty good. = Clean the little screens at the floats for good measure, mine got plugged the time I found out that I really am Empty when the needle hits the = bottom line. If you don't have one, try afuel filter transparent enough that you = can see it stays 2/3 or so full,and what sort of crap is acumulating. Replacing my fuel pump the other day increased my idle, as well as solving = a NO-start! :) >I'm thinking about getting the Pertonix ignition, but don't want to add >it until I solve this miss problem. I am dubious of optical triggers long term reliability, although they(pertronix) have a good rep. Hall Effect(knife blade passingthrough a = slot, F@RD4 style is the most accurate trigger (and anything is easier/better than points) >Thanks in advance for the help. > >Al Happy huntin' Rowan*68 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Pulley problems From: "Niklas Ridell" <vcc2.nridell@memo.volvo.se> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:13:27 +0100 I have inquired a rebuilt engine. A 400 from -75. The engine includes a water pump but no pulleys. I am moving all external parts like alternator, steering pump and pulleys from a -68 350. But... I've run into this short nose/long nose water pump problem making the pulleys misaligning. What's the best way to solve my problem. Getting a 1975 water pump pulley or do I need to replace all of the pulleys? /Niklas
(back) Subject: Re: Ignition lock. From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:25:06 -0800 Or....the ignition switch(praise Lucas)went bad and was replaced.... I know on some later GM cars, one gey fits all is an extra cost option. hmmmm >Funny thing...my ignition key unlocks the doors. The round key unlocks = the >trunk and glove box. Perhaps GM was ealrier in the "valet key" concept. > > >On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:15:33 -0800, First Generation Firebird-L wrote: > > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > > >......................................................................... > > It cost me $15 to have my trunk(which came with no key) redone to > > use my door keys. I think I will have my truck and bird set up to = use >the > > same one key someday. > > Rowan *68 > > > > >From: "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net> > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Disconnecting A TVS Switch? From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:39:49 -0800 If I had a dad like you... *Wakes up* Disconect and cap hose, remove tvs and plug hole... introduce offending TVS to shop floor with BFH... Slam another coors while gleefully dancing on the remains, yelling 'Down with the EPA!' No! im kidding...Describe the thingy this TVS connects to, or mail me a picture of it(off the list, topic list or firebird), and ill describe its intended action as it relates to your car. Most of them are beneficial, harmless or usless. Then there are the other ones. Rowan*68 >>Ladies and Gents, > >I stumbled upon a survivor 68 350 Coupe that I intend to purchase for my >son. > Because I'm the only list member with a 'Nightshade Green' car I = assumed >that this a rare color - - I was amazed that the car I found is the same >color (recently repainted), also with Parchment interior. More about >that at >a different time. > >When we test drove the car it ran great, and when I looked under the hood >I >noticed that the TVS switch was disconnected. Should I, can I, how do I, >disconnect the switch on my 68 convertible? BTW, my idle stop solenoid >switch has been previously removed. > >Thanks >Steve Lind 68 350 Conv > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: fan question??? From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:10:12 -0800 You can always look to Bob for a thorough overview of the topic I can add a little from my experience... Let me start off with my theory that 1)Pontiac was satisfied with the cooling when they shiped our cars. 2)Not much has changed, now mixtures run alittle leaner, and there is some = other crap mixed with our gas[at least its not lead], especialy in California. Id guess no more than 3 or 4 degrees from fodern fuel. 3)A stock rebuilt(relatively) motor with a complete original style cooling = system in good working order should be adequate. Over time, we know that thermostats water pumps and radiators degrade, Fans, clutches, shrouds, airdams, thermostats, vacuum controls go missing, = scale builds up inside the engine castings(this signifacantly reduces heat = transfer) Some thoughts on fans:A newer clutch fan (from a pickup most likely) may = run quieter than the original due to advances in blade design if you can find one of the right diameter. GM engines with serpentine belt spin the water = pump the other way...dont use one of those. When I got my car there was no thermostat, no fan shroud, no filler panels = between the bumper and radiator, and no front valence panel. i could go uphill for about 40 minutes before starting to overheat. A 190 stat has me going good unless its over 90 degrees out, or traffic stops for 30 minutes. I got a valence, and airdam before i knew the stat was missing. I have a 3 row radiator. If it is hot out, I open the hood, = and plug in the electric fans, two 12" pushers from Geo Metro w/A/C. $10 = at pick n pull half price weekend, grab it and wank the plastic clips loose = in 30 seconds, cut the wire so you keep the connector. I slipped the = brackets between the radiator and bulkhead, and bent them a little to secure them = in place, added a heavy guage clip for hookup to batery all in less time than = it took me to type this : ) I have not overheated since, even drove a 300 = mile road trip with 4 passengers in 80something degree wather. Noticed = some play in my water pump the other day tho, be getting a new one real soon I guess. My plan is to get a fanshroud, and install the filler panels I just got from Brady! then wait till summer so I know where I stand. My guess is = it will work well. Even so, I plan to make a fancy solid state fan controler = with WOT and 4th gear cutout, adjustable temp. i know the adjustable kit sells for $20, and the force to run two 12" electrics is pretty negligable for a Poncho, but it will be a fun excercise[or complex nightmare]. An airdam may help you cool better on the highway. Engine fully warmed, your entire radiator should be equally warm to the touch. In the shop, the most comon causes of overheating are: a leak, the tehrmostat, bad fan clutch old/cloged radiator. Here, I am refering to the undermaintained POS's that fill shops = everywhere, Musclecars are usualy better loved, and we usualy are more attuned to weather or not it is working right. It strikes fear in my heart when I point out the steel belts protruding = from a tire, and the owner says 'O my! seems like I just got those', and theyre = stoked on havin found the best deal(cheapest tire made). Off my pedastal.. as we modify the car to run harder, everything will need = to get beefier. I think on our Birds, the air going through the radiator and balling up under the hood may be our biggest engineering handicap. Im = starting to ramble, must have been up too long. Goodnight Rowan*68 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: help! 3.90 rear end q's From: "Joseph Cione" <cione@aoml.noaa.gov> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:40:37 -0400 guys, Quick q. I am looking for a 3.90 rear end for my 68 bird. I ran into a guy online selling a 3.90 (see description below). 2 questions, should his set up work seamlessly on my 68 Bird (even though its originally from a 64 gto)? Also whats a fair ballpark price (hes asking 750 for teh entire set up). Shipping has got to be prety steep I imagine. Anywway thanks in advance for your help.... Joe PS as an aside will a 1967 bird 3.90 rearend swap seamlessly into a 68 bird (ie no mods)? With the staggered leaf spring setup ushered in in 1968 I wasnt sure if there were other 'issues' I should be aware of. I realize thats not what this guy is selling but I also may have a line on a 67 bird 3.90 (not as likely to get a chance on that deal though...) thanks!! --------- his description: Joe, the rear is a 'ZK' code, 3.90 posi with metallic brakes. I took this rearend out of a 64 GTO that had been converted to leaf springs. GTO's originally came with coil springs. Someone welded leaf spring perches on the rearend and installed it in the 64 GTO. The single vs the multi leaf spring issue doesn't matter with regard to the rearend housing. the main thing is the width of the housing. I need to know the width of the rearend in you car (inside drum to drum) and the width (centerline to centerline) of the perches.