First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Re: 67 Deluxe interior Sail panel lights or not? by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: Interior paint. by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: Ignition lock. by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Parting out 71 Firebird by "Ken Reimer" <kreimer@uniserve.com> Re: Engine ID by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM> Kmorrow posts by "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> interior paint by "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> RE: 455 engine pieces recommendations by "Provost, Marty" <MProvost@LiquidGolf.com> ADMN: CA Power Outage Issues by "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> Re: Interior Paint Color by <kmorrow@socket.net> Re: Intake #'s by <kmorrow@socket.net> Front End revisited! by "Glenn Uettwiller" <birdman@gdi.net> Re: Will a 455 fit by <PStonebrak@aol.com> Re: Ignition keys by <kmorrow@socket.net> another header question by "danny" <dannyboylll@qwest.net> Re: Wanting non-original seats by "pete" <yaselskyp@webtv.net> Re: Wanting non-original seats by "pete" <yaselskyp@webtv.net> RE: 455 engine pieces recommendations by "Tim Marcinek" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> RE: 455 engine pieces recommendations by "danny" <dannyboylll@qwest.net> B&M stage1 shift kit by "Just Rod" <pjozif@hotmail.com> Re: List Server: Re: 67 Deluxe interior Sail panel lights or not? /broken by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: Ignition lock. by "Niklas Ridell" <vcc2.nridell@memo.volvo.se>
(back) Subject: Re: 67 Deluxe interior Sail panel lights or not? From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:06:14 -0800 I am parting such a car...no sail lights, or wiring for em...you can see some pics at HTTP://www.cruzers.com/`rowan . There was a metal brace = glued to the backof the sail panel(i think ti hold some clips) that would = probably mount lights ok. If yours is rough, I might have some parts to help you = out. Rowan *68 >From: kmorrow@socket.net >......................................................................... >Anyone out there have a 67 Bird coupe with deluxe interior? I need to = know >if >the birds actually had sail panel lights with the deluxe interior. I know = >the >Camaro deluxe interior did as I have seen them on unmolested cars. My 67 >Firebird 400 has deluxe interior with the underdash brackets and bulbs = like >all >the convertibles but no sail panel lights. Someone has replaced the >healiner >and sail panels at one time though as the material is incorrect( visors >still >have the correct material. The restoration parts catalogs show them( >doesn't >mean they are correct though, they are in the business of selling parts). = >If >you look in a Pontiac parts illustration manual they show them???? Where >they >actually put on >birds??? > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Interior paint. From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:08:38 -0800 John, mine was green. Don't use glossy, the glare on the windsheild will suck. .....all I know Rowan *68 >From: "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net> >......................................................................... >I'm pulling my glove box door and sainding my dash to be painted) does >anyone have experience with the exact color black that was in the '68 >birds? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Ignition lock. From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:15:33 -0800 That< I can help with...take thebits an peices to a locksmit, and have = them set up a new unit that uses the door/trunk key. That way if you still = have an original key, it is worth points resto wise, and reduces thesize of the = keyring. It cost me $15 to have my trunk(which came with no key) redone = to use my door keys. I think I will have my truck and bird set up to use the = same one key someday. Rowan *68 >From: "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net> >......................................................................... >Wanna hear a stupid move? I was readingg in m hadny dandy maintenance >manual about how to remove the ignition switch if you dont have a key. I >now this was discussed a year or so ago but I didnt keep any of it = because >- >well never mind that was another stupid move So I took a bit and I = drilled. >I still couldnt pull it out. I drillled a liitle more - still no luck. = So >I pulled out the reserves and called apon the DREMEL. To much - I got = it >out but doing so I screwed up the small piece that you punch with a paper >clip in order to remove or replace the switch. I can insert the switch = but >I cant turn clockwise 20 degrees. Anyone have any ideas? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Parting out 71 Firebird From: "Ken Reimer" <kreimer@uniserve.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:18:40 -0800 Hi All, I know that this isn't what I usually work with, but I thought that I would take a chance on it. I received a call from a guy that had a 71 Firebird for sale. He said that he was going to give me first choice on it because I gave him a fair deal on something that he had bought for it before. Anways, it's a 71 350 2 bbl auto with rusty 1/4s and floor pan, so I'm going to part it out. It's yellow with a black vinyl roof and it's more or less complete. The interior is black deluxe with a console and seems to be in good condition. It has the woodgrain dash panel and standard intrumentation. The rear end is a 10 bolt, but I haven't determined the ratio yet. The rear bumper, tail lights and panel all appear to be in good shape. The front Endura nose, grilles, hood, fenders and doors are also pretty decent. There are also wheel well opening mouldings and rocker panel moldings on the car. If anybody needs any parts from this car, send me a list and I'll get back to you. I'm located in Langley, BC. Ph # is 604 530-0956 Regards, Ken kreimer@uniserve.com
(back) Subject: Re: Engine ID From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:47:33 -0800 (PST) Dereck writes: >What is the sure fire way to identify the difference between a 350 and a >400 WA code engine just by looking at it, or some other simple way. It gets worse than that. The WA code was used as early as 1964 on 389s, thru 1974 on 350s, and in between on 400s and 455s. Though engine codes are recycled, each specific year, it's used to designate only one engine size. So, if you can pinpoint the engine as being of 1971 vintage, then you know that it's got to be a 360 horse 455 from a Tempest or GTO. The date code is the first and best place to look. To find that, look on the back of the block, next to the hole where the distributor enters the block. On the flat surface, you'll find 4 digits. A letter, and 3 numbers. The letter is the month of the year. A=3D January, B=3D Feb, C=3DMarch, etc. Sometimes they skip the letter I, sometimes they don't. The next 2 numbers are the day of the month. The last number is the last digit of the year. 0 (zero) could mean 1960, or 1970, or 1980. I'll get to that in a bit. So, if it says C160, then the block was cast on March 16, on a year ending in Zero. Remember that a block cast late in the year could be part of the next year's auto production. So, an engine cast in November 1968 probably ended up in a 1969 production car. Also on the back of the block, near the bellhousing mating surface, will be the block casting number. Typically 6 or 7 digits. Looking at this site, <http://fteufert1.home.att.net/pontiac/bloccast.htm> you can see that a 1970 455 casting number is 9799140. If you find this, then you are sure of what you have. So, why not just use the block casting number? Because in some years, the same casting number was used on different displacement motors, and sometimes the same number was used two different years. Example. 1969, the casting number 9792968 was used for both the 428 block, and the RA V 400. Starting in either late 1969, or early 1970, the displacement was cast into the side of the block near the first freeze plug on either side. It would either be 350 or 35 to indicate a 350 CI block, 400 or 400, and so on. So, the sure fire way is the date code, plus casting code, and then the engine code up front. Of these 3, you absolutely need the date code and engine code. -Bob Cisneros San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible bob.cisneros@Ebay.Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Kmorrow posts From: "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:44:06 -0500 Subject: Correct oil filter for 67 Firebird 400? From: <kmorrow@socket.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:18:10 GMT Wanted to know if anyone knew anything about PF23 AC oil filters. I ran across a NOS one that is white with blue stripes and red AC logo on it. On the = box the only application listed is 1967 Pontiac V-8. I am sure it was superceded = by the PF24. The 67 Firebird parts manual supplement that is dated effective = February 1967 lists only the PF24, the 72 Pontiac master parts catalog lists all = PF24, no PF23 for anything. What would be correct for a 67 bird built third week = in May if it just rolled off the assembly line???? K morrow, Please sign you name at bottom of post, its not so impersonal replying to = you when we know who it is. Just curious as to why you want an original oil filter,be it a PF-23 or PF-24. To be 100% correct as it was at the showroom fresh off the assembly line = it would be painted PMD metallic blue. The AC identity would be obscured. There are = lots of reproduction AC filters out there. Go to K Mart buy the latest AC filter and paint it PMD metallic blue. I wouldnt run an 30 year old design filter on a $20K restored car anyway. No more than using 30 year old oil. Just trying to save an engine an some money. Gary Subject: 67 Deluxe interior Sail panel lights or not? From: <kmorrow@socket.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:26:59 GMT Anyone out there have a 67 Bird coupe with deluxe interior? I need to know = if the birds actually had sail panel lights with the deluxe interior. I know = the Camaro deluxe interior did as I have seen them on unmolested cars. My 67 Firebird 400 has deluxe interior with the underdash brackets and bulbs = like all the convertibles but no sail panel lights. Someone has replaced the = healiner and sail panels at one time though as the material is incorrect( visors = still have the correct material. The restoration parts catalogs show them( = doesn't mean they are correct though, they are in the business of selling parts). = If you look in a Pontiac parts illustration manual they show them???? Where = they actually put on birds??? 67 birds didnt have sail panel lights. They WERE an option on the A bodies tho. Hence the parts manual showing them. 67 Birds did have a light at the rear of console which no other year had. Gary
(back) Subject: interior paint From: "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:48:32 -0500 Subject: Interior paint. From: "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:51:08 -0500 I'm pulling my glove box door and sainding my dash to be painted) does anyone have experience with the exact color black that was in the '68 = birds? John awhile back I sent Geoff the Paint #s and degrees of gloss. Its most likely in the FAQ section. This is tricky getting the correct gloss for the upper(0 deg) and lower. Un polished lacquer is close on the lower dash . Gary
(back) Subject: RE: 455 engine pieces recommendations From: "Provost, Marty" <MProvost@LiquidGolf.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:11:22 -0500 Ok, more questions...sorry. I'm new at this, but I promise I won't ask the same question twice. Btw, I am in no way trying to make my bird look original. In fact I do not have any engine components at all. Everything will have to be purchased. It will be custom through and through. What valve sizes and compression do I get with the 87cc heads? Would you personally choose the performer or performer rpm? Isn't the rpm designed for higher rpms, which is not what you want with a big block? I definitely want to use a roller cam with roller rockers. Would 1.6 roller rockers be the best choice? When you say regular distributor, what do you mean? I was planning on using an HEI distributor. Here's a crazy = question, would my saginaw 4 speed survive this engine? I have a personal fondness = of manual transmissions. I realize that even if I practice 50 times a day I will always be slower than if I had an automatic but I'm not racing to win just to have fun. Assuming the saginaw can't take it is there a = reasonably priced manual that will. If not, what automatic tranny do you recommend. = Is the 700r4 the best? Thank you all so much for helping the newbie, Marty -----Original Message----- From: KSOS1@aol.com [mailto:KSOS1@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 2:24 PM To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Subject: Re: 455 engine pieces recommendations First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List ......................................................................... For heads I would use edelbrock performer 87cc heads, intake either edelbrock performer or performer rpm, carb is a holley or edelbrock 750( = the edelbrock is easier to tune in my opinion), and for a cam crane has just come out with roller cams for pontiacs that have the proper distributor = gear on them so you can use a regular distributor. Cam size- I wouldnt go over 230 degrees duration at .050 for the street with an automatic without the proper stall convertor. This setup should get u darn near 500 horse and about 550 ft/lbs of torque.
(back) Subject: ADMN: CA Power Outage Issues From: "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:14:24 -0500 FYI: I have been told we may be affected by the California power issue with the rolling black outs. Our web site and email service is provided by a company out of California. Their auxiliary power supply is suppose to the last the duration of the power outage but they have a disclaimer up on our admn area. Therefor, you may encounter brief periods of our web site and email services vanishing from the net. Geoff <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>
(back) Subject: Re: Interior Paint Color From: <kmorrow@socket.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 03:17:37 GMT I found some old paint codes in a 67 Firebird part book. For black = interior it lists Black Dupont 88, Ditzler 9248, Mason 400-A-946 all with 60% gloss. = For the upper dash it says Velvet Black Dupont 4428-L, Ditzler 9317, Mason = 400-A- 946 all with 0% gloss (cut down on windshield glare). A parts store could probably still mix it or cross the codes. Hope this helps Kane
(back) Subject: Re: Intake #'s From: <kmorrow@socket.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 03:23:30 GMT Try this site http://fteufert1.home.att.net/pontiac/intake.htm It lists your intake numbers. How's the weather in St. Louisville, Ohio???
(back) Subject: Front End revisited! From: "Glenn Uettwiller" <birdman@gdi.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:39:41 -0500 I have a picture in my computer of me installing a spring last night on my buddy's 68 LeMans WITHOUT a spring compressor. He was amazed such a thing could be done since he remembers his dad renting a compressor the last time, so he brought his new digital camera. (Unfortunately, it's a 239K JPEG image. That's a bit large for my computer.) Anyway, to those of you who insist a spring compressor is necessary, I had that new control arm and old spring in place in about 10 minutes. Anybody who wants to see the correct aplication of where to push with your shoe, let me know - I'll email you this photo. Glenn aka birdman
(back) Subject: Re: Will a 455 fit From: <PStonebrak@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:29:44 EST HOW MUCH DOES THE A/C COMPRESSOR WEIGH ???
(back) Subject: Re: Ignition keys From: <kmorrow@socket.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 03:47:29 GMT Before anyone else tears up there locks I thought this might be helpful. = If you have the billing history for your car from PHS it lists the four digit = ignition key and trunk key codes. Take this to a GM dealer and they can look up the = code in the key code book and get the 6 cuts and punch a key with the curtis keycutter they all have. If you don't have the codes the four digit codes = are stamped on the original door lock and trunk lock cylinders also. The door matches the ignition(unless someone changed something) and the trunk = matches the glove box. Their are six cuts on the keys with 5 possibilties for = each. Example, my 67 bird ignition and doors are 7W05, in key cuts this is = 532242. The trunk and glove box was 2X52, which is 431132. The cuts are from the = head to tip holding the head to the right. The dealers use a punch or knotching = tool which you set the dials to those numbers in that order. They did not use = the grinders you see in hardware stores, it is a simple hand tool. The correct = key blanks for 67 are A blank for door and ignition and B blank for trunk and = glove box, the ignition has a octagon head with the Briggs and Stratton logo and = the trunk is more of a rounded scallopped head with the logo. Dealers also = have the tumblers to code any of the cylinders also. If anyone needs to know their = key cuts I have a hole box of key code books as well as the punch tool and key = blanks, and tumblers I bought from an old dealer closing. Thanks Kane
(back) Subject: another header question From: "danny" <dannyboylll@qwest.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:07:43 -0700 thanks for the help with my ROUND PORT edelbrock heads. I do have another quick question though. With the help from all of you i have decided on a set of factory cast iron exhaust manifolds they are in the ames catalog = p.84 item # fn391A. the caption says that they require 5 mounting bolts. my edelbrock heads have 6 mounting holes. will they bolt right up and just = not use one of the holes or is this going to be a problem. thanks a t -danny albuquerque new mexico 68 400
(back) Subject: Re: Wanting non-original seats From: "pete" <yaselskyp@webtv.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:13:05 -0800 (PST) Just my input here. I noticed at my shop that 1990 up ish VW Jetta GLI's come factory with recarga seats. Or it is just an odd coincidence that the last 10 we worked on had the same style recargas. Make sure you check the GLI's which if not mistaken is the sport version of the regular Jetta. The years vary but were between 1990 and 1994. You might want to check out the local yards. Also, from what I hear Honda seats fit well too. You just need to flatten out the mounting rails. Good luck.
(back) Subject: Re: Wanting non-original seats From: "pete" <yaselskyp@webtv.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:15:49 -0800 (PST) UUhm, that should read Recaros, not Recargos....sorry its been a looong day..:)
(back) Subject: RE: 455 engine pieces recommendations From: "Tim Marcinek" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:19:32 -0500 As mentioned you don't need to have the aluminum heads to have a very = strong street motor and they are expensive at around 1600$. Roller cam is also = not necessary for the street I am using the comp xe268h 224/230 @.050. The = cam really depends on your trans and rear ratio. Numerically higher rear, you can go longer on the duration, moving your power band up higher in the rpm range. Roller cam will also cost you quite a bit more, but may be better. As far as transmission, my friend has destroyed one 4 speed with his 428 already./ As far as I know the only sure bet with a 455 is a th400. You are looking at 500+ lb-ft of torque which is tough to handle. go to the cp website at http://www.classicalpontiac.com/ and go to q & a search for 455 in the archives. these things have = discussed a million times, there is tons of info about all of the possible combinations. tim
(back) Subject: RE: 455 engine pieces recommendations From: "danny" <dannyboylll@qwest.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:26:47 -0700 What valve sizes and compression do I get with the 87cc heads? 2.11 intake and 1.66 exhaust Wouldyou personally choose the performer or performer rpm? performer rpm... the performer is rated at 1500-5500 rpm the performer rpm is rated at 1500-6500 rpm they both have the same low end so they should both be just as = streetable with the rpm manifold giving more flow (theoretically) definitely want to use a roller cam with roller rockers. Would 1.6 roller rockers be the best choice? i know that with edelbrock heads you have to do a little bit of dremel = work on the pushrod guide holes for clearence i ahve 1:5 rockers so i am not = sure of exactly what this entails, but be sure to find out before you ommit. -danny 68 400 coup.
(back) Subject: B&M stage1 shift kit From: "Just Rod" <pjozif@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 06:41:11 -0000 has anyone here installed the stage one b&m shift improver kit? ROD _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
(back) Subject: Re: List Server: Re: 67 Deluxe interior Sail panel lights or not? /broken link From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:46:26 -0800 From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> I misstyped the link, giving a `instead of~...this one is fixed now : ) Sorry...Rowan I am parting such a car...no sail lights, or wiring for em...you can see some pics at HTTP://www.cruzers.com/~rowan . There was a metal brace glued to the backof the sail panel(i think ti hold some clips) that would probably mount lights ok. > >Rowan *68 > >>From: kmorrow@socket.net > Anyone out there have a 67 Bird coupe with deluxe interior? I need to know ifthe birds actually had sail panel lights with the deluxe interior. I knowtheCamaro deluxe interior did as I have seen them on unmolested cars. = My 67 Firebird 400 has deluxe interior with the underdash brackets and bulbs likeallthe convertibles but no sail panel lights. Someone has replaced the = healiner and sail panels at one time though as the material is incorrect( visors still have the correct material. The restoration parts catalogs = show them(doesn't mean they are correct though, they are in the business of selling >parts). > >>If > >>you look in a Pontiac parts illustration manual they show them???? = Where > >>they > >>actually put on > >>birds??? > >> _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Ignition lock. From: "Niklas Ridell" <vcc2.nridell@memo.volvo.se> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:35:38 +0100 I'm sure there is a special tool for this but I used a simple fork from the kitchen table. Bend to of the pins and, voila! You have made your own special tool. Works perfect. /Niklas bob.cisneros@ebay.sun.com wrote: > > Been there and done that. I used my Dremel to then cut off the ring > that hold the switch in place since I had a new switch and ring > to replace them. I had to cut the ring in 2 places to get it off > the switch body. > > -Bob Cisneros San Jose, CA > 1968 Convertible > > bob.cisneros@Ebay.Sun.COM >